Leona Parham and Etta Mae Zimmerman Interview



ETTA MAE ZIMMERMAN: And I said, well I used to know you when you was a little boy. But now there's people on there from LaGrange -- and now I'm not sure Grantville. We made a lot of mistakes [inaudible]

GEORGE STONEY: Okay, ugh, the first thing -- are you ready, Tom?

TOM: No, I'm not. Because I've got a warning light on the machine.

JUDITH HELFAND: Etta Mae. I'm gonna ask you again about Travis. I didn't quite get all that in just a minute, okay? Travis is an old man isn't he?

LEONA ZIMMERMAN: Travis Whitman [inaudible]. Whitman.

STONEY: [inaudible] that's a good building.

PARHAM: The night of the opening. It was opened on March 12 -- I'm not sure of the year. It was either '30, let's see. I believe it was '36. I'm not positive. It was either '36 or '37.

STONEY: Now, I wonder if you could tell me about your early life when you first started working in the mills. And you were telling Judi about moving, moving from one place to another. Could you talk about that?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, we started in Douglasville, Alabama. You mean when I went to work?

STONEY: That's right.

PARHAM: No, you didn't work in Douglasville.

ZIMMERMAN: He said when I went to work. I started going to the mill when I was 9. But I went down there to help my sisters. I went to school. Then I got home from school Mama would say "go pull off your school clothes and go help the girls". And I was supposed to be 14 years old, I mean 14 ½. But I went to work when I was 14. But I was supposed to know all about spinning and the cotton mill but they had started running better cotton and they was supposed to twist 00:03:00up the ends. But I was just dabbing on it. The man I went to work for said, "Etta Mae, you mean Lovella (my older sister) didn't learn you how to twist up the ends?" I said, "no ma'am, no sir." He said "well you're just gonna have to go home, come back and learn how to twist 'em up because we can't have them dabbed up, cause it makes a knot." So I went to work about a week later.

STONEY: Tell me about your family moving from place to place.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, from the country they moved to Douglasville. From Douglasville 00:04:00to Toupas. We stayed there, I don't remember just how many years. But in 1913 we moved to East Newnan, GA. From East Newnan, GA we moved to Douglas -- I mean to Barnesville, GA. And from Barnesville, GA we moved to Griffin. To the first #1. And from #1 we moved to #2. We hadn't been there but 3 weeks when my sister got burned. The man at the store had mixed gasoline and kerosene together. Kerosene pumps off of gas.

PARHAM: He put gasoline in the kerosene tank.

STONEY: Why did you move so often?

ZIMMERMAN: Ever -- Well, Papa -- we worked for Mr. Joe Head. At [inaudible] and 00:05:00every time he moved he would write to my father that we could make more at another mill. And then -- more working in the mill at that time. Five, huh?

My brother Rueben went to work when he was 12 years old. But they wouldn't put that money in his -- We got little tickets. And they wouldn't put that money in his ticket. I mean he didn't have a ticket. They put them in my two sister's tickets. Split it. Put it in two sister's tickets.

PARHAM: They called them tickets but they were envelopes.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, they're still tickets.

STONEY: Could you tell me something about your father because he was obviously a very special man.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, he read a lot. And so did my mother. Besides the Bible he kept up with politics. And --

PARHAM: History

ZIMMERMAN: History. He had an old ancient history he read once a year. And he read the Bible once a year. And he could tell you just about anywhere to find scripture in the old Bible and the New Testament. If he read, if he finished a chapter tonight he went back and read it again so he'd remember it.

STONEY: So you were talking about -- tell us about the newspapers he read?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, he read just about all the newspapers but he saved Tom Watson papers. We had a big stack of Tom Watson paper because he'd refer back to 00:07:00them every once in a while. But when Papa got busy reading we could get around him and do most anything. But he was a strict parent. So was my mother. They didn't let us go off to play with other children. But they all come to our house. And at one time there was 5 of us in school. But we could bring anybody home we wanted to. A lot of people -- a lot of them stayed there at night. But we slept crossways on the bed when they did. We didn't have a bedroom.

STONEY: Describe the house you lived in and how big it was and how many people lived there.

ZIMMERMAN: Four rooms and a hall. We lived in one place in East Newnan about 3 00:08:00year and then we farmed one year. But we didn't get to go back to the same house. We had to move. We lived on Hill St but we had to move on Phill St 'til that house got empty. Papa wanted a house cause he always -- Papa didn't want to work in the mill 'cause he didn't want a boss. But he farmed. He always -- if he -- he rented a place to farm. Sometimes we had to walk all the way across town. Eugene went to the plant when he was just big enough to hold a [inaudible]. One time we walked all the way across town, I mean across the village. Way over to the waterworks. And about a quarter mile from there me and 00:09:00Leona had take his dinner. He told us one time that he had planted peas and corn instead of beans and corn. And we'd go pick 'em up and he'd give us chew tobacco. We didn't know -- we – a lot of times we'd get rabbit tobacco but we didn't know what tobacco was. And I'm pretty sure if he took chew tobacco it'd make him sick but

for some reason somebody had give him some tobacco. So we went picked up them peas, all we could find.

PARHAM: Two rows

ZIMMERMAN: Two long rows, too. And when we got to the creek we lost all we'd 00:10:00eat that day 'cause it made it us so sick. We had to stay away from home a little while because it made us sick.

STONEY: Now your father did work in the mills didn't he?

ZIMMERMAN: Nu-uh. All he ever done in the mill was to run the dope wagon.

PARHAM: Now explain that dope.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, it was a Coke Cola wagon. But they had lunches, black lunches on crackers and chewing gum, snuff, tobacco, things like that. And that's what he did in Hogansville, he run the dope wagon. But he farmed. We, we lived in this house at one time because he could have a pretty good sized garden back in there.

STONEY: Now let's move up to 1934 what do you remember about that time?

ZIMMERMAN: 1934? I don't --

PARHAM: That's the year they had the strike.

ZIMMERMAN: Well --

PARHAM: She's forgetting that.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, Roosevelt was elected in '31 wasn't he?

STONEY: '32.

ZIMMERMAN: '32. And he asked the mills to organize. And Hogansville was organized. But we went different mills --

PARHAM: Not all of it.

ZIMMERMAN: Lil said not to tell all of it.

PARHAM: No, I said not all of Hogansville was organized some. We had some -- that stood back.

ZIMMERMAN: No, not all of Hogansville but there was enough of us. We first went 00:12:00to Rockmart and they got -- they run us off with hose pipes and got [inaudible]. Turned the hose on us.

PARHAM: [inaudible]

ZIMMERMAN: Then they went, then we went to Sargent, GA. That's where -- well it used to be Governor.

PARHAM: Arnold.

ZIMMERMAN: Our rent started in Sargent was unco. We went to Sargent and they did come out. But if you are talking about who was on that truck, they were from LaGrange and I'm not sure Grantville but Hogansville. And we met, a lot of 00:13:00them Sargent's up there. Sargent's finally did organize some of them, not all of them. All Hogansville wasn't organized either. But Eugene Talmadge was running for governor. Papa went to hear him. He never had voted for him. But he promised not to send out the troops. But he -- they got through with the election, I guess, at midnight. And that little boy that stood by me said he was called out at 6:00 in the morning. Leona would have been with us but she -- she wouldn't go because she hadn't had any breakfast.

PARHAM: No I had -- I got up sick that morning, too.

STONEY: Well--

ZIMMERMAN: But me and Pop were the only ones there. The two men that come from 00:14:00Atlanta, GA and I don't know their names, they was the ones that organized it. What part of Hogansville was organized but they wasn't supposed to take anybody except ones that worked the mill. There was new mills, Stark Mills and old mill. Well he closed Old Mill down.

STONEY: But now you -- people who had been working in the mills knew what -- how much opposition there might be. What gave --

ZIMMERMAN: There was a lot of opposition.

STONEY: What gave you the courage to do that?

ZIMMERMAN: I didn't call it courage.

PARHAM: Well, it was in a sense. For better --

ZIMMERMAN: Well I can see now you can't make people do anything but we was 00:15:00trying to get them organized.

PARHAM: For better pay and better hours.

ZIMMERMAN: But we hadn't been up there very long. Now the truck from LaGrange went back, I don't know who drove it back. But we went -- we didn't know where they was taking us. We didn't know what we was going to the big --

PARHAM: Penitentiary.

ZIMMERMAN: But we went to Ft. McPherson and when we got up there they didn't have nothing but a big barn and it was full of trucks. But they strung up barbed wire for the men and they brought Army cots for the women. And the only -- 00:16:00person that I remember coming out there was, his name was Captain Bell from the Army. And he told us that they going to bring some Army cots down there and they was going to get a woman to stay with us. But we'd be guarded around the clock and we were. They changed guards, I think about every six hours, maybe 4 hours. And some of the women you'd hear talked too much. Know what I'm talking about? They talked ugly. But after they got that woman in there she quieted on down. But I didn't have any breakfast, dinner, supper til about 8:00 that 00:17:00night. They stopped in Newnan and got all those guards. That little boy that was standing by me. And he was a boy. He wanted to give me part of his hamburger. They got hamburgers and hot dogs, slaw and coffee or drink. And I think we stayed up there seven days, Didn't we?

PARHAM: About a week.

STONEY: Tell us about staying there, what was it like?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, they were good to us. They didn't discriminate us against us in no way. Those boys that come out as guards was nice. Most of them was young boys. They's old enough to be in the Army.

STONEY: What did you do for a bathroom?

ZIMMERMAN: We went to a little johnny down in the woods but a guard had to follow us. He didn't understand he didn't go in with us. But that woman – I wish I could think of her name. And I just -- how come y'all didn't read that article? You said you saw it at the Rain Water.

STONEY: You want to read us the article?

HELFAND: Sure.

STONEY: We've got it, yeah, we'll read it to you and see what you think.

ZIMMERMAN: I think we was there about 7 days, I'm not sure.

HELFAND: Okay, um, should I start with "128 men, women detained in camp" or "strike prisoners in cheerful mood"? That's where Etta Mae is uh, quoted.

HELFAND: George?

STONEY: Yeah, go ahead.

HELFAND: Start with Etta Mae's quote?

STONEY: Yeah. Uh huh.

HELFAND: Imprisoned under martial -- Okay. This is uh, Tuesday morning, September 18, 1934. Says "Strike prisoners in cheerful mood". Imprisoned under martial law, 16 women and 112 men captured by national guardsmen from a textile mill picket line at Newnan settled down Monday night to the strange life of a makeshift military internment camp. The entire lot appeared in good spirits. They are the first persons taken in, in custody by the Ga National Guard on charges of trying to keep workers from returning to mills reopening, despite the national strike. The prisoners were taken into custody Monday by a flying squadron of guardsmen led by Adjutant General Lindley Camp under governing Eugene Talmadge's Martial Law Decree. The women, most of them girls in the late teens or early 20's seemed more cheerful and much more conversational than the men prisoners. They all wondered when they would get out 00:20:00but they did not appear worried. "As long as they feed us we're not howling" said one man. Etta Mae Zimmerman, one

of the girl prisoners said "we feel more honored to go out with the National Guard than with the scabs." She lives at Hogansville some distance from Newnan. It was from that cotton mill center that most of the 128 prisoners came. "We got up at 2:00 this morning to go over to Newnan for picket duty" said Mrs. Marge Ranger, another prisoner. "We was just peaceful picketing."

Should I continue?

STONEY: Yeah.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah but we was just trying to get 'em to come out. Some of them went to work at 6:00. But now there's a lot of men and women from LaGrange, GA. There wasn't too many of us down there. Some of 'em was at the new mill some of them was at the old mill. Callaway -- when we come here the two mills 00:21:00was New England Southern that Callaway bought. I guess Callaway owned the new mill -- old mill when we come here as part of -- no he didn't.

PARHAM: It was Stark when we came here, under Stark Management. Stark built the mill. Callaway --

ZIMMERMAN: His name was Stark.

PARHAM: Yeah.

STONEY: Now what I'm going to do now is to put on your television screen some actual news reel footage of that time. And -- and maybe you'll recognize some of the people.

ZIMMERMAN: I have to get up to it, to see it.

STONEY: Alright, you wanna go -- just get up and move closer to the television set.

ZIMMERMAN: I can't even see from here to you.

STONEY: Yeah, okay.

PARHAM: You're pretty close now, Etta Mae.

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah but if I recognize [inaudible]

STONEY: Yeah, that's --

PARHAM: That's close enough.

STONEY: And why don't you move your chair, or you're -- just move the bench right up next to her, piano bench.

ZIMMERMAN: You mean my picture will be on the –

HELFAND: I told you --

PARHAM: She just wants to see, what's on there.

STONEY: Did you want to move up right next to her, please?

PARHAM: Well, do I need to?

STONEY: Yeah, just right next to her so --

HELFAND: [inaudible]

STONEY: -- yeah, I will. The first [inaudible] is when we've got, uh what actually was in the -- the uh.

ZIMMERMAN: I guess where we take Ft. McPherson.

STONEY: Yeah. Okay. Okay, now --

TV AUDIO: [inaudible] the textile strikers flying squadron methods, national 00:23:00guardsmen of Newnan, Ga round up a group of pickets and place them under arrest. Women as well as men are taken in the militia's men. The strikers submit peacefully and are hustled off before bristling bailiff's. State highway trucks are used to transport the prisoners numbering about 200. Many of them women and girls. This drastic action, authorities explained, is taken to prevent threat and violence. Specifically, those arrested are charged with attempting to prevent the reopening of the Newnan Mills. Reminiscent of world war days, is the hastily constructed internment camp in which the strikers are confined. This one is in back of Ft. McPherson at Atlanta. Armed guards patrol the barbed wire enclosure surrounding the camp while the prisoners learn how it feels to be on the inside looking out. Chow time finds a lot of healthy appetites and the incarcerated ladies make the best of their predicament. It's good old Army grub, plain

but nourishing and the state is paying for it.

ZIMMERMAN: [inaudible] Eugene Talmadge

STONEY: Okay, now I'm gonna cut down the volume because the rest of it is 00:24:00footage without sound but I think you're be able to recognize a number of people and when you do recognize people just let us know.

PARHAM: [inaudible] Olivia, Olivia Kramer --

ZIMMERMAN: Okay.

ZIMMERMAN: There's three of those girls, two of them Grangers.

PARHAM: Two of the grandchildren?

ZIMMERMAN: Two of the Granger's

PARHAM: Oh, Granger's, mmhmm.

STONEY: It will be coming in just a moment. And if you recognize any of the men -- maybe you'll spot your father.

ZIMMERMAN: Well I can't see it too good.

PARHAM: They're getting on the truck. I can see that.

ZIMMERMAN: Well Papa didn't have to get on that truck either. One of them guards said "now grandpa you…"

PARHAM: He had a daughter on that truck.

[Pause]

ZIMMERMAN: Well I don't think it shows the barn where they kept the trucks.

STONEY: There'll be a lot more footage coming. Now this is Newnan still.

PARHAM: It wasn't raining that morning was it?

ZIMMERMAN: Uh, uh. But it was cold.

PARHAM: -- see the complexion -- umbrellas

ZIMMERMAN: Who is that, Leona? Who is that?

PARHAM: I really can't see whoever had a mustache. And I don't think…We had too many men with mustaches at that time. This one Mr. Lester over here on this side. [inaudible]

ZIMMERMAN: Well Ed was with us -- Ed was with the men. His son was with the men. Is that where they're loading them on the truck?

STONEY: That's right.

PARHAM: That's a T Model Ford, right? I don't know, I'm not sure it's a 00:27:00Ford. [inaudible] man standing --

ZIMMERMAN: There we go here -- We had a brother still in Cedartown.

STONEY: Your brother was there as well was he?

PARHAM: No.

ZIMMERMAN: Uh uh, he was in Cedartown.

STONEY: What was he doing in Cedartown?

ZIMMERMAN: Working in the mill. For Goodyear.

PARHAM: Must be [inaudible]

ZIMMERMAN: I had on black and white check when I went up there. But they sent, 00:28:00sent me some clothes. Leona can't you recognize some of them people?

PARHAM: I can't, no, not really.

ZIMMERMAN: Travis Whitman --

STONEY: No the next one will be coming up, you'll see some people.

ZIMMERMAN: Travis, Travis Whitman was on that truck. His was a [inaudible]

PARHAM: I wouldn't recognize him neither

ZIMMERMAN: You would, too. He'll look --

STONEY: This is still Newnan.

ZIMMERMAN: And his brother

STONEY: Now this is at the camp. Ft. McPherson.

ZIMMERMAN: You see there wasn't nothing there but the barn when we got there.

PARHAM: That looks like a -- somebody laying on a --

ZIMMERMAN: Oh.

PARHAM: Stooped over.

ZIMMERMAN: Two of those Horton girls and one of them -- well many have been married. But she wouldn't live there with her husband [inaudible]. I can't 00:29:00see nothing but trees.

PARHAM: Well, I can see them but I haven't seen anyone yet that I recognize.

STONEY: Do you remember the tents?

ZIMMERMAN: Sure.

STONEY: Tell us about the tents?

ZIMMERMAN: Well they didn't have tents to begin with, they slept on the ground the first night. And then they put the men up some tents. But Charlie Frank Green hollered and hooped all the time we was up there.

STONEY: Who was Charlie Frank Green?

ZIMMERMAN: He lived in Hogansville.

PARHAM: He was one of the strikers. That looks like --

ZIMMERMAN: And if I'm not mistaken, Ed Lester was -- was with them.

PARHAM: Wait a minute. That's the Horton girl.

ZIMMERMAN: There's three of them. One of them died.

PARHAM: I don't know that, um --- I don't know who this one over here on the end is.

ZIMMERMAN: Some of those women are from Sergeant, GA. There's two of them. I know.

PARHAM: It looks like Olivia and Ira. I guess that Viola was the next oldest to Olivia wasn't she?

ZIMMERMAN: There's three of them. That one that died -- she married a Drake--

PARHAM: I said that it looks like the Horton girls but I don't know who the last one was --

ZIMMERMAN: Well if I'm not mistaken their brother was the one that took [inaudible]

PARHAM: I don't --

ZIMMERMAN: It's just the ones that went down early to picket --