Robert Ragan Interview 5

 (inaudible conversation)

ROBERT RAGAN:-- the interview, I don't know exactly what all I said, I've tried to be as honest as I can, and uh, I don't mean to be -- to sound self-righteous about myself, or self-righteous about the textile industry, or self-righteous about management. I know there are two sides to every question, there are always two sides, sometimes there are more than two sides to every question. And I 'm sure when you interview someone else, whether its management or employees or labor or what, that you will find a slightly different viewpoint. But that's the way America, that's the way people are made up. And I won't be a bit surprised at that. But I think that what you will find what we have discussed is generally, historically correct and is 00:01:00certainly the opinion that I have myself or have developed from my father who was associated with the textile industry for so many years.

JUDITH HELFAND: Do you have one last thing that you think -- that your father -- that you could think of in regards to your father, and him setting up his mill village?

RAGAN: Well in what respect?

HELFAND: In terms of uh, in terms, you know you were telling me before.

RAGAN: I just -- it was very exciting to him when it started. He graduated from Georgia Tech with a textile degree. That was a textile school in the South. Then he decide to go to New England to the New Bedford Textile Institute in New Bedford, which I think was part of M.I.T. the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. And it was the leading textile school in New England at that time, there was another one in Philadelphia that was equally as good. But, uh I mean 00:02:00the textile industry of New England was riding high, it was the zenith of its power, it was extreme wealth and everything. And of course he was very impressed with it. But he could see some weaknesses in the New England industry that already developed. Some cracks that were breaking in. That they had these tremendous old plants, but they hadn't been modernized in years. They were big tremendous plants that the uh, the hands, the employees were often different nationalities, four and five, and six different nationalities. A lot of orders in the mill had to be posted on the bulletin board in different languages. So it was harder to deal with. And the mills in the South at this time were smaller. Uh a lot of them were one story at that time, rather than the multi-stories. The machinery was newer. Even though they were smaller, newer 00:03:00machinery could produce 50, or 60, or 70 percent more production than the same machinery in New England. And another thing he noticed, while in New Bedford, was that to cost the Northern New England mills, were, they were letting the machinery get older but they were also changing from maybe combed yarn to carded yarn, which is produced cheaper.

HELFAND: So what—the big difference between setting up a mill community in the South and one here was—

RAGAN: Well, newer, it was newer, their cost of production, that goes back to the machinery, was able to produce a pound of yarn, or a yard of cloth, or yard of knitted goods cheaper than the mills in New England could do. For those various reasons. So yes they were very profitable in the beginning. And, uh, 00:04:00they saw it as a good opportunity and my dad was very excited when he graduated from school. Fortunately his father had been one of the founders of the textile industry in Gaston County from the 1880s. So he had some background in the industry, and he had been writing his father all a long trying to interest him into putting up the finances for a new mill. And his father, was name George Washington Ragan wanted to do that so that pleased my father. So when he graduated from New Bedford he came home and they started building the first unit of the Ragan Spinning Mills and the village that was associated with it. And it was right interesting, the president of the New Bedford Textile Institute, Dr. 00:05:00William Smith, came down as a consultant to Ragan Spinning Company, to help them uh in the planning of the mill, and the layout of the machinery, and the yarn counts and (inaudible) and whatever set up at that point. So I think that was a very good thing to do because he knew the industry so well.

HELFAND: Great. I think we'll get the—

[break in video]

[Silence]

HELFAND: Did your father save this picture?

RAGAN: Mmm-hmm it was in one of his scrapbooks. I had the small ones, the last time y'all were I couldn't put my hands on this one. Some people today, looking for an old timey scrap book can't find them. They have to come to New York to find me a scrapbook. You know what I'm talking about, scrapbook—

HELFAND: You mean the little black corners?

RAGAN: Mmm-hmm.

HELFAND: Oh forget that you can't even find the black corners anymore.

RAGAN: Now are we gonna talk about this?

HELFAND: You can just riff on it. I mean you can just tell me where you think your dad was when they were –

RAGAN: Alright this is a photograph taken by some of the news media that were there. Of the uh, uh, flying squadrons forcing their way into one of the doors at Ragan Spinning Company the day after Labor Day 1934. And um, I can't exactly tell you where dad was, but there were some other platforms out in the foreground where he stood up and called out to the workers. And finally found the leaders and got them to stop for a while, and listen, listen to some of the things he had to say.

[break in video]

RAGAN: That morning, they had started in South Gastonia at 9:30 and I'm sure 00:08:00about that time news media was already stationed in Gastonia, they were probably following these caravans. There were caravans of trucks and cars, you know they had the private cars and trucks and everything and they were just going up and down the roads to the various mills. So obviously the news media, just like they are today the—we call them the camera, the camera man or whatever. In Charlotte they are on the scene just as soon as something happens so it probably wasn't very unusual that they were there.

HELFAND: And this was a big deal for your dad if he saved this picture.

RAGAN: Oh I'm sure.

HELFAND: Did he write that on the back of that?

RAGAN: No I had written hat just I'd remember the date and place and time.

HELFAND: And do – you could sort of put the picture on you're, on your lap. Did you father—did your father – you could just hold it with one hand.

RAGAN: Ok.

HELFAND: Did your- did your father show this to you when you were a little kid or when you got older?

RAGAN: When I got older, yeah. Well I was interested in that type of thing. That he didn't push it on me, it was just something that I was always wanting to see. You know old things and things that happened in the past, so I was very interested in it. And fortunately he had saved a lot of things like this that uh, helped me in my historical work.

HELFAND: Well it's helping us now too. And that's your dad right there?

RAGAN: Yeah this was one maybe closer to the time of the strike. This was probably 1940. He and uh, this is my father Caldwell Ragan and this was one of his yarn brokers from New England. Uh Norman McCullough. And I think that picture was taken on vacation in Montreat one summer.

HELFAND: And that's pretty close to around the time—

RAGAN: Uh-huh. I think it looks very much like he may have looked back during that time. He had dark hair then so.

HELFAND: Great.

[break in video]

M1: (inaudible)

RAGAN: I suppose I can do mine same that I can. I have to read about it and study it some more to do it justice myself.

M1: If it's no bother and doesn't take too long, it actually helps I think.

HELFAND: Hold on a second, do you have his dad in the background?

M1: Yeah.

M2: Don't walk, don't walk.

M1: Sorry. Tell me when I can walk.

[break in video]

HELFAND: (inaudible)

RAGAN: The book is written, it's been at the printer's for over a year. I just keep rewriting. It's very expensive to do but, uh, I didn't know what I 00:11:00was doing (inaudible). I've already started on another one now.

F1: Oh really? What's your next book about?

RAGAN: The first one took me 30 years, I think I can get the next one in about 3. The next one is about the family but it's about the textile—

[break in video]

HELFAND: So are you interviewing a bunch of other people for it?

RAGAN: That's what I've been doing for about the last 30 years. And now I have the background material, it just putting all the stuff together.

HELFAND: Now it's the lonely part right?

RAGAN: The lonely part.

HELFAND: (laughter)

F1: Get it all out of your mind and on the paper.

[break video]

M1: (inaudible)

HELFAND: Where's the dog?

RAGAN: He's in a lot, he's outside.

M2: Hold still, hold still.

RAGAN: if we get him started—

M2: Hold still.

M1: (inaudible)

HELFAND: No let's

M1: (inaudible)

HELFAND: Wait, wait, wait a sec, he's gonna take, he's taking a still of your father. We're not rolling.

M1: Yet another one.

RAGAN: The tones are right. He had that little flushed look in his cheeks.

HELFAND: In real life?

RAGAN: looked real good. (inaudible)

HELFAND: Well I'm really glad you told me about Ragan.

RAGAN: It's one of those, you know trivial things you remember. That you always remember.