Lucille Thornburgh Interview 10

00:00:00

JUDITH HELFAND: You know, if there were other parts of the community that really stuck by you, even after this. If there had been other, other people making a protest, after they put that injunction out and after they locked you out, do you think it would have been different if the community had given a different kind of support?

LUCILLE THORNBURGH: Yes, I think it definitely would, but the community did not give us that support.

HELFAND: So that was a big difference.

THORNBURGH: It was a big difference there.

M1: Wait.

[break in video]

HELFAND: Realized, you know, that that might have been the big deciding factor, and then maybe that would have been the big difference in the outcome of all of this.

THORNBURGH: Oh, the community was against us.

HELFAND: Is if the communities had been supportive.

THORNBURGH: No, the community was not supportive, definitely not supportive. Is he recording this?

M1: Yes.

THORNBURGH: Oh.

HELFAND: The communities just stood by and watched.

THORNBURGH: No. While we tried to fight the injunction, but we had no community 00:01:00support from that at all, none. So we had to fight the injunction as best we could. We tried to get it lifted but we were not successful, the injunction stayed on. This is a picture of myself and one of the textile workers from Dyersburg, presenting -- we'll have to start over on this, because I've forgotten what we presented. Was it a rug or what? A woven rug, yeah, let's start over. This is a picture of myself and a striker from Dyersburg, Tennessee, presenting a woven rug to Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, and where this came from, out at Norris, they had set up a little workshop out there. It was on behalf of the TVA workers council, which was a union council 00:02:00out there at Norris. They had set up a cooperative weaving shop in order to help some of our people who had been blacklisted from Cherokee, and of course there was good weavers among those people, and we had good publicity from this and we appreciated that. It was not in the Knoxville paper but it was in the Nashville paper. This is one too, I don't know where they ever got this picture or what. This came from the Philadelphia Enquirer, in September of 1934, referred to me as Joan of Arc of strikers. Lucille Thornburgh, the principal leader of the spinning mill workers at Knoxville, Tennessee, who joined the national walkout in the industry, and a picture of me. I don't know where the national enquirer ever got that. (inaudible) I wonder what the date on this one is.

HELFAND: Can you read that headline?

00:03:00

THORNBURGH: Yeah, this one, "Girl with flashing eyes leads Cherokee strikers." Was that some description of me? Lucille Thornburgh was one of union organizers there, served as secretary. It goes on to tell that I'm one of the leaders in the strike. Ms. Thornburgh, who lives at 1009 McGhee Street, and all she did in the strike and all like that, but I kept it. This was a letter that I received from the international president of the textile workers union, and I felt very good about this and I appreciated him writing it. I wanted to read it to you.

HELFAND: What's the date?

THORNBURGH: The date is December 22, 1934. (phone rings)

[break in video]

M1: Let's wait for that train to go by.

[break in video]

M1: Five, four, three...

HELFAND: OK.

00:04:00

THORNBURGH: This is a letter that I received from our international union president, Thomas F. McMahon, on December 22, 1934. I really appreciated this, after all the criticism that I had had. Now, I'm getting mixed up here, let's start over.

HELFAND: That was wonderful.

M1: Lucille?

[break in video]

M1: I'm ready.

M2: And I a ready too.

THORNBURGH: This is a letter that I received from the president of our united textile workers union in Washington. I really appreciated the letter. I'd had so much criticism and all, that I received this letter from him. I want to read part of it to you. (reads) "Dear sister. I read, with interest, yours of December 16th, and oh what a blessing it would be if we had some more in the South, animated by the spirit that keeps you going. You can surely use our 00:05:00label on the rugs." That's what I had written to him about, asking him if we could put the union label on the rugs that we were making out at Norris. "You can surely use our label on the rugs, or anything else you make, under the circumstances you stated in your letter. I believe that such a thing as you outlined would be very beneficial. It's good to know that while you're assisting in every way possible, you are keeping your eyes open to get work for those who have been locked out. It is not flattery when I say that we have all too few people of your kind in our labor movement. I do hope to see Knoxville, once again on the map as a real organized locality." So do I. "No matter what you do or what work you're engaged in, you're entitled to be the president of our local union as long as you want to be. I appreciate indeed, what you are doing for us and hope some time, to again have the pleasure of meeting you. 00:06:00With best wishes to all of you for a merry, merry, Christmas. Fraternally yours, William F. McMahon." I liked that, I thought that was, that was nice. And this is still another one from him. As I said, all the criticism I'd had, I really appreciate this letter, this is December 12th. "Dear Sister Thornburgh, your letter of December 8 received and carefully noted. I am sure that this gives hope to our good people in the Cherokee Mill, and will undoubtedly be a great aid to all textile workers in Knoxville. All credit is due Mr. Connor, with the exception of what is due you, for your perseverance and courage. Had it not been for you, the thing would have fallen by the wayside long, long ago. The buzzards have tried everything to destroy you but have failed, but if more 00:07:00like you were around, it would be an incentive to the people to maintain a permanent organization. With kindest personal regards, fraternally your." Wasn't that a nice letter? I really appreciated that. This is where I --

M1: Hold on. Let me get—

[break in video]

THORNBURGH: No, it never did grow to be, they didn't expect it to grow to be a big thing, but it took care of, you know, like 15 or 20 people, which was good. This is just a picture of some of us at a state labor convention. This, this, -- that was my first state convention and I liked it very much, I learned a lot there.

HELFAND: Was that before the strike?

THORNBURGH: And this -- that was after the strike. This is pictures of Stanley Rounds, who was president of the Central Labor Council here, from the Ironworkers Union. C.C. Arthur was vice president, from the Railroad Workers 00:08:00Union. Van Stamps, a carpenter, was the conductor, and I was the financial secretary. See my picture there, with all of those men? I was real proud of that, it's just a letter head of the Central Labor Council. The next thing that I was involved in, in the labor movement, that was really noteworthy, was the big Labor Day celebration that we had here in 1936. That was really, that was really something. We had the president of the American Federation of Labor, William Green was here as our speaker. We had a big barbecue and rally. It was a big, it was a real shot in the arm for organized labor, that we very much needed here in Knoxville.

HELFAND: You were able to do that even after, after the strike?

THORNBURGH: After the strike, that's right.

HELFAND: There's a great ribbon there.

00:09:00

THORNBURGH: What is that? Oh that was the -- at the first state convention that I went to. This says, "Tennessee Federation of Labor," this one was held in 1935. I was a delegate there. And then, at the next convention, I don't know whether I have anything in here about that or not. At the next convention, I was elected East Tennessee vice president of the Tennessee Federation of Labor, and I was the first woman that had been elected to that office. And this is even more about our big Labor Day celebration that we were so, so proud of. And then, when I was -- when the TVA transferred me from Knoxville to Wilson Dam, the Central Labor Union here protested it. These are just pictures of things and this is an old leaflet from the American Federation of Labor. William Green 00:10:00looks like a young man there.

HELFAND: What were you trying to say with that, with that Labor Day parade two years after all this?

THORNBURGH: We were just, I think we wanted, and we were able to, we wanted to show the strength of organized labor in this area and we did. We were able to do it. We had a parade that was over a mile long. We paraded and we had just organized, it was a newly organized group, over at Alcoa, the aluminum company of America, and our parade went from Knoxville to Maryville, 16 miles. And then we had a big barbecue, we had watermelons. It was a big to-do, and the newspapers carried stories on it. We had several good stories on that.

HELFAND: Did you feel like you were thumbing your nose at Cherokee?

THORNBURGH: I guess so, that would be a good way to put it, that we were letting 00:11:00Cherokee know that we were still alive and well and working. We let them know that. Now that's it.

HELFAND: OK, there's one more picture of you with that card, the CIO card.

THORNBURGH: Is that in there?

HELFAND: Yeah, the one that you --

THORNBURGH: This, this is ah, one when -- well that's President Green arriving in Atlanta. Where's that picture? I visit Atlanta and then and now.

HELFAND: I think it's --

THORNBURGH: Nineteen forty-seven, I was given -- the AFL gave me a scholarship to Ruskin College at Oxford, England, and I was over there.

HELFAND: Here it is.

THORNBURGH: Oh yes. This is a picture, I was working on the organizing staff at that time, and this picture was taken in Florida. We were -- and we had this 00:12:00car all decorated, it says AFL, Join AFL Now! And we had a loudspeaker on top, and we drove all through all of the communities in Florida with that loudspeaker going. We did get some attention on it too.

HELFAND: What year was that? It's on top.

THORNBURGH: Nineteen thirty-nine.

HELFAND: How did you feel? Was it, was it scary, having a car that had that emblem on the outside?

THORNBURGH: It was at first, but we got by with it and saw well, let's -- this is working, let's use it.

HELFAND: Was that part of Operation Dixie?

THORNBURGH: Yes.

HELFAND: Could you, could, could you just flip back to that and tell me that, that was part of the Operation Dixie.

THORNBURGH: Now wait a minute, I didn't -- Operation Dixie was amalgamated clothing workers.

HELFAND: OK, so which -- was this something?

THORNBURGH: This, we were --

HELFAND: There it is, you just passed it.

THORNBURGH: I was on the organizing staff there and at that time, I was helping 00:13:00the laundry workers. I was helping the organizer for the laundry workers, to organize there, and we thought that was a good idea, to have the loudspeaker and the decorated car to go around. Maybe it did. We finally organized the laundry we was working with, so maybe it did work. Now, have we got it all?

HELFAND: I think so.

[break in video]

HELFAND: It might just be easier, the strike is on, the United Textile Workers.

M1: OK, so just do a little and -- you were on the --

HELFAND: From the picture.

M1: From the picture of the car or something. No, no, a little more, hold on. The car.

00:14:00

HELFAND: If it's easier, Lucille, you could actually just talk a little bit about it.

THORNBURGH: That's all right.

HELFAND: You could read that one.

THORNBURGH: "To all textile workers, official notice." And then it goes on to tell us about what the strike is being called for. This, this was a very informative leaflet. This was one of the first pictures that was taken of the strike. They'd come out and asked us questions, but that was the first picture that we had. Unions vote to walk out today, September 4. This is when Mr. Mebane died, which was a very, very sad day for us. This gives the list, and not exactly a list, but it tells of all the people that had been locked out, and 00:15:00where we were calling on Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, to help us. Oh, this was the injunction, that was a sad day. We could no longer picket, we could no longer work with each other in any way.

HELFAND: Could you point out the blacklist.

THORNBURGH: Now, they were blacklisted. This is the blacklist, they called it locked out. It wasn't only locked out, you were blacklisted, you couldn't go to work anywhere else.

HELFAND: Did you write that sort of to say what it was?

THORNBURGH: Yes. And then this is what you said, this comes from that.

[break in video]

M2: Where you underlined.

THORNBURGH: Where I underlined.

M2: Could you like point and then turn? Point to the strike thing.

THORNBURGH: Point to this?

HELFAND: Yeah.

00:16:00

M2: Can you turn it, and point to the car. OK. Turn it.

HELFAND: Read it out, read that one out loud.

THORNBURGH: "To all textile workers, official notice." This was the notice of the strike.

M2: Actually, OK, OK.

[break in video]

HELFAND: This is a hand, turning to the right.

THORNBURGH: Now what do you want, turn it?

M2: OK.

THORNBURGH: Turn it?

M2: Yeah.

THORNBURGH: That picture is so damp, that I don't think you can --

M2: Point again.

00:17:00

HELFAND: Actually, you know, you can just point to your picture there. There it is.

M2: That might be too close.

HELFAND: That's great.

M2: OK, turn it --

HELFAND: We just need the headlines close up. And it might be while you're holding it like that, Lucille can actually turn the page. We cut that one.

M2: Yeah, no, I've done that a couple times already. OK, you can turn it. OK, and turn it. Can we lower it down, lower your fingers.

HELFAND: Death claims H.B. Mebane.

M2: Page B, got it.

00:18:00

HELFAND: We can just turn it.

M2: OK, want to just turn a few at a time?

HELFAND: Yeah, let's just turn a few of them.

M2: Just explain it to her.

HELFAND: You can just move your finger around a little bit and you can just tell me what that headline was, and then you can just turn it and keep on going.

THORNBURGH: Judge enjoins Cherokee Mill strikers. Gorman seeks troop protection. Blacklisted, to rehire men when needed, management says.

HELFAND: Let's do that one, one more time, because that one is real important.

[break in video]

M2: This headline, and then with your finger, and then go into the other one directly.

00:19:00

HELFAND: Now you were angry when you must -- you must have been angry when you wrote that blacklist weren't you?

THORNBURGH: I probably was.

M2: OK.

HELFAND: I think we've got it. Well, we just need to --

M2: Turn a few fast, but without pointing. Go ahead. This one she pointed to.

HELFAND: Yeah.

M2: Point to the Joan of Arc just for a second.