RACHEL BERNSTEIN: So, Im going to say that all over again, its RachelBernstein, its November 20th, 2013. Were in Las Vegas, and Im with Ron McGaha. Thank you so much for coming.
RON MCGAHA: Yeah.
BERNSTEIN: And Maria tells me youre a member of the Rat Pack. Before we getthere, I want to start at the beginning, if we may. And do you mind telling me where and when you were born?
MCGAHA: I was born in Wenatchee, Washington, in 1943. And, uh, grew up there.
BERNSTEIN: What did your parents do?
MCGAHA: Uh, originally, my parents came out there, uh, from the Depression era,you know, they came out to, uh, work in the, uh, fruit industry out there, and either picking, or packing, or something to do with fruit. And, um, uh, when I was born there, uh, they were actually working in the orchards. They were, essentially migrant workers at the time. And, uh, they tell me my first crib was 00:01:00an apple box. (laughter)
BERNSTEIN: (laughter) A man of the field!
BERNSTEIN: Ha! So, what do you remember, were they involved in organizing, farm workers?
MCGAHA: No, not really --
BERNSTEIN: Do you remember of that part of your early childhood?
MCGAHA: No, they had -- they had nothing to do with that, they were basicallyworking to make a living. And my dad went to work with the railroad, uh, which was a union job.
BERNSTEIN: How did he get from the field to the railroad?
MCGAHA: Um --
BERNSTEIN: Thats -- uh, did he have a -- did he know someone?
MCGAHA: No, it was, um -- it was, uh -- in those days, well, it still dealt withthe fruit industry, because in those days, the, uh, boxcars that they shipped the fruit in, they were not refrigerated, and they used ice to cool the fruit. And they had the giant big blocks of ice, and a big chain conveyor that ran 00:02:00along -- near the tops of the cars, and they would put that ice in the ends of the cars, and the cold air would circulate and, uh, keep the fruit. And he worked there a short time, and, uh, technology caught up with it. And, uh, they came to mechanic -- what they call a mechanical cars now, and mechanical refrigerated cars, and did away with that job. And so, he lost his job on the railroads.
MCGAHA: But that was his first -- I think his first short stint as a union job.
BERNSTEIN: So, you came from a union family, sort of?
MCGAHA: Uh, I -- I dont think I was necessarily opposed to unions, but mostof the work there in those days --
BERNSTEIN: (inaudible) Im sorry, but this is -- [rattling noise]
MCGAHA: Its not even -- just put a halt to it.
BERNSTEIN: Lets see if we can --00:03:00
MCGAHA: Quietest room in the place, and its got a --
BERNSTEIN: And it didnt do this yesterday. OK.
MCGAHA: Uh, you were asking about the, uh, union family. It wasnt -- my dadwasnt necessarily opposed to unions, but he was not, um, usually in a -- a position to have a union job in those days, because there -- you know, the work that was around there was not necessarily union, other than that railroad job. And he went to work then for a, uh, a non-union irrigation company as, you know, a friend of his owned this company, and he went to work there, and he worked there until he got, uh, severely injured. He had a fall, fell about 18 feet and broke the pelvis, and arm, and leg.
MCGAHA: And they said hed never walk again, but he did. So, uh, he workedthere. And, uh, then he -- or that company, um, I dont know, the owner died or something, and the company went out of business, and he went to work for the, uh, water district, uh, doing similar work, because he worked in on the, uh, water systems. And, uh, he worked there until he retired, and that was a union job. So, he got a very, very small union pension when he retired. Just about enough to pay the co-pay on the medical, so --
BERNSTEIN: (laughter) Oh, boy.
MCGAHA: Yeah, so --
BERNSTEIN: So, you were born there, and you went to school, and --
MCGAHA: I went to school in Wenatchee, and East Wenatchee. So the, uh, school --high school I went to was called Eastmont, which was East Wenatchee. And I got out of there and I went in the Navy, and I -- when I went in the Navy, I, um, had always had this urge, really, to go to work for Boeing. And I had a 00:05:00brother-in-law that worked for Boeing, and he was telling me all of the wonderful things to do at Boeing, and I always loved airplanes. So, when I went in the Navy, I, um, became a pattern maker, which is you build patterns for metal castings, and that sort of thing. And so, when I got out of the Navy, I went to work for Boeing, hired in as a pattern maker, but never worked there as a pattern maker, because they hired me for that, but typical Boeing and everything. So, uh, you know, rush, rush, rush, hurry, hurry, they put you on another job, and you end up staying there until you leave, but --
BERNSTEIN: So, what did you -- you were hired as a pattern maker, but you endedup doing --
MCGAHA: I ended up as a template maker by, um, classification. And, uh, toshorten the story a bit, and go back and fill in the blanks later, but the, uh, template maker job was, you know, is basically the start of everything, as far 00:06:00as the touch labor goes on the airplane. And you have to lock the curves for, you know, the contours of the airplane. And you make the basic tooling that they make all of the rest of the tooling, and all of the master tooling that we made, masters all of the other tools that are built for that airplane.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, uh-huh.
MCGAHA: And so, it was -- you know, it was a pretty nice job.
BERNSTEIN: And you did that all based on the training that you had gotten in the Navy?
MCGAHA: Yeah, that, and high school and stuff, because you know, a lot oftrigonometry, and geometry, and that sort of thing involved with it.
BERNSTEIN: I mean, it sounds like a job for an engineer.
MCGAHA: Yeah, its -- well, we did a lot of things that, now, engineering doesdo. I mean, but again, like my dad, that job was displaced by technology. Because once they came to a digitally mastered tooling, you know, all of the computer-aided design, and manufacturing, and stuff, all of that high-skilled 00:07:00work went away, and it was replaced by, you know, computers.
MCGAHA: And so, I always like to say I was the last template maker. I intended,at one time, to write a book about that and call it The Last Template Maker talking about, you know, the loss of jobs due to technology, you know, that were once, uh, high paid, high-skilled jobs.
MCGAHA: And -- and they go away. Well, when I was the last template maker, I hadalready gone to work for the union at that time, as a full-time rep. So, uh, it didnt directly affect me, but it did a lot of other people.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, yeah.
MCGAHA: But the seniority roster that they keep in there, and mine was the lastname on the seniority roster.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, it really is, ah! (laughter)
MCGAHA: Because I really was the last template maker, yeah. (laughter)
BERNSTEIN: So, you hire on at Boeing.
BERNSTEIN: And its a union job?
BERNSTEIN: And so, you join the union because you have no choice. Did you get involved?00:08:00
MCGAHA: No, in -- in those days -- in those days, you did have a choice.
BERNSTEIN: Did you have a choice? Yeah?
MCGAHA: Yeah, we -- we had a choice, uh, it was a, uh, open shop, and had beensince 1948. Uh, they had a strike in 1948, and as part of the settlement of the strike, they had an open shop. And so, I could have chosen not to join the union, but I wanted to join the union, and really, I think my, uh, desire to join the union was based on, um, you know, fairness because, you know, growing up as a kid, you work in some jobs that are really not very good, you know? And I saw my dad, you know, the kind of stuff that he did. And I thought to myself, when I go to work, Im going to go to work at a union shop, and I felt that way since I was, probably, eight years old. And, uh, so I went in there, and right away, I said, yeah, how do I join? Where do I sign? You know, lets get this thing going. And then when I got in there, I found out that there was 00:09:00people in there that didnt join -- belong to the union. So, in those days, the -- the union members within a shop were unmerciful on somebody that wasnt in the union. I mean, they -- I mean, treated him very badly. And, uh, not physically, but I mean, you know, just sort of shunned him like they didnt even exist.
BERNSTEIN: They didnt just keep trying to organize, talk him in?
MCGAHA: Oh yeah. Yeah.
MCGAHA: They -- they, you know, they signed up, ready to sign up, scab, youknow? (laughter) I mean, it was every day, it was -- but anyway, I did sign in as union, and I got active, probably, about -- I mean, actually doing something other than paying dues, probably about three years after I hired in. And I hired in in 1965. So, about 1968, or 69, or somewhere along there. About the time we landed on the moon.
MCGAHA: Uh, I was a union steward up in the Everett plant, which was the 747,brand new 747s in those days. And I got involved in the union as a union steward, and working in elections, and that sort of thing. And, uh, one of my earliest involvements in the elections. I dont know if youre familiar with Roman Mayfield, have you heard his name?
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MCGAHA: Well, Roman and I were on a, uh -- uh, we were chairing a -- an electioncommittee, and he and I sat all day, you know, two of us running an election. And that was when the, uh, Boeing plant was starting to, uh, shutdown, back in the big shutdown in the late 60s, early 70s. And we had, like, 3,000 people laid off in a day, just lined up, looked like Disneyland, lined up to checkout their toolboxes, and that sort of thing. Well, Roman and I had the duty up there to run the election. And we sat in there, in a plant that had 00:11:00originally had, probably, 15,000-20,000 people working in it. And we got 13 votes all day, and two of them were our own votes.
BERNSTEIN: Oh my God.
MCGAHA: Because everybody was gone. And I got a chance to really get to knowRoman over the years, you know? And hes just really been a -- he was always an inspiration, if not a mentor, he was definitely an inspiration, so -- But anyway, thats how I kind of got started, yeah.
BERNSTEIN: So, you met him right when you started in --
MCGAHA: No, I met him at the local before, but you know, we really got to sitdown and talk, and kind of get to know him a little bit. So, he was set there for 14 hours, you know, sitting like we are, sitting here just chatting.
BERNSTEIN: Fourteen hours on the election --
MCGAHA: Yeah, yeah.
BERNSTEIN: Uh, thats a long time.
MCGAHA: And nobody there but us. You know, so we -- we get a lot of talking done.
MCGAHA: Hes really, uh, quite an amazing guy.
BERNSTEIN: So, you got involved in your local, and joined in.00:12:00
MCGAHA: So, I -- I was a union steward, and then, uh, second shift at Everett,they shut down second shift, so I was no longer a steward, and I got transferred, uh, down to Seattle. And, uh --
BERNSTEIN: Transferred by the union, or Boeing?
MCGAHA: Company, by the company. I was still hourly at the time, working in theplant. And, into a job that had nothing to do with my skill sets. And I was there about three months, and then I got back into my old job, down in the Renton plant, where I spent most of the career. And, uh, really got political down there. I got elected, uh, three times to the district council, and recording secretary of my local. And, uh, ultimately appointed onto, uh, full-time staff as an organizer for it. And went to, then, from there --
BERNSTEIN: So, it sounds like you worked -- you did a lot of union activitywhile you were still an employee.
MCGAHA: We did, yeah, we did a lot of, uh, you know, the internal elections, and00:13:00external politics, and fundraising, and various things. We started a, uh -- you know, the MNPL, I dont know if youre familiar, that Machinist Non-Partisan Political League.
BERNSTEIN: Yes, yes.
MCGAHA: Our political PAC, I guess.
MCGAHA: Well, they -- years ago, we had, uh -- during that big shutdown, when we-- all of the stewards got a little stipend for their average every month, and the international came up and asked us if we would deliver -- if we would donate half our stipend into the MNPL fund. And I said, well, why dont we just donate it all, you know? I mean, it wasnt -- there wasnt a lot, you know?
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, right.
MCGAHA: It was, like, an hours pay, or something like that. So, anyway, our,uh, district out there, District 751, and so, I donated $7.51. And, you know, because I wanted to know where this money was coming from, it was coming from 00:14:00751, both the company and the international, I wanted to let them know, you know, where these donations were coming out.
MCGAHA: And are you familiar with Bill Holyater?
BERNSTEIN: Yes, indeed.
MCGAHA: He was the MNPL director at the time. And he came out there, and he wasreading off all these donations. Well, mine came out to these odd cents. And he couldnt understand why that was. And I explained to him, I said, Well, I gave $7.51 a month. Well, later, a couple -- three years later, our district hired a, uh -- a political director, which we had never had before. And she -- you know, hooked onto this idea, this 751, and formalized it into a 751 club.
MCGAHA: And that 751, uh, card has grown into, I dont know how many thousandsof members, but it collects about a half million dollars a year out of that, just from 751 memberships.
BERNSTEIN: No kidding?00:15:00
MCGAHA: Yeah, about a half million dollars a year. Because people -- some payquite a bit more than that, probably.
MCGAHA: But still, theres --
BERNSTEIN: They can do multiples. (laughter)
MCGAHA: Yeah, but thats the base. So, when we signed that up --
BERNSTEIN: Thats a great idea, a really great idea.
MCGAHA: -- there were about three of us, you know, two of my buddies, they camealong, and they -- they signed up after I did, but, um, I dont know how we got on that subject, but, uh --
BERNSTEIN: Well, Im looking for you to tell me stories about your early years --
BERNSTEIN: -- when you were still working as a steward, and getting involved inthe politics.
MCGAHA: Yeah, that was --
BERNSTEIN: And of the local and the political fun.
MCGAHA: Yeah, that was one of my involvements.
MCGAHA: And, uh, the political thing, we had, um -- you know, we have -- youcould probably run for state office in Washington State easier than you can run for office in our district. I mean, its that difficult.
MCGAHA: Yeah, and weve got -- well, we got, uh, multiple locations, for one00:16:00thing, and a lot of members, and several offices. And weve got seven local lodges. So, theres an election going all the time. You know, they spaced out elections for those local lodges, then you add in the district offices, then you add in convention delegates, and everything else that comes along.
BERNSTEIN: Lot of elections.
MCGAHA: Youve got elections going all the time up there. So, you become verypolitical, if youre involved in the union at all. You get very, very political, or you dont last. You know, so theres a lot of -- a lot of politics going on there all the time.
BERNSTEIN: So, you lasted?
MCGAHA: I lasted.
BERNSTEIN: And to what do you attribute?
MCGAHA: Well, I dont know -- you know, being, uh, very fortunate to, uh,surround myself with people that, you know, had the same or similar values, you know, union values, and that sort of thing. And working together to move the 00:17:00whole organization forward. And I -- I think thats probably the reason I lasted, because I didnt -- or at least I tried not to waiver from those values, and I think, uh -- I think thats what saved me in the long run. (laughter) I went to work, uh -- while at Boeing, I was a -- I went to work as a supervisor for about three years during my career at Boeing, and during that three years, I continue to pay dues to the union. I didnt have to, but I did, because, you know, I knew one day, Id be back, you know, in the bargaining unit.
MCGAHA: So, I was short of three years there. And, um, I ended up getting firedout of management.
MCGAHA: Actually, fired out of the company.
BERNSTEIN: For your union sympathies?
MCGAHA: No, well, I dont know if its union sympathies, but the reason Igot fired, 1977, we went on strike. And in 1977, we had, um, very little 00:18:00organization, as far as strike committee and everything, I mean, we were on strike...
BERNSTEIN: You were in a supervisory position?
MCGAHA: No, that was before I went into supervisor.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, it was before, OK.
MCGAHA: I was giving you the background, and then Ill tell you the story.
BERNSTEIN: OK, good. All right, all right.
MCGAHA: Sorry if Im confusing you.
MCGAHA: But anyway, we -- uh, we went on strike. And, during that time...
BERNSTEIN: So, did you help organize the strike?
MCGAHA: I was on district council for that time, so I was one of the picketcaptains. And, you know, we dispatched everybody for, uh, picket duty, and that sort of thing. And, uh, our members, you know, of course, being out of work, you know, they need food, shelter, whatever. And we had this, uh, it was called Boeing Employees Good Neighbor Fund, which is like a United Way, internal, um, collection agency within the company.
MCGAHA: And they refused to offer any help to any of our members -- uh, toagencies to help our members. So, in other words, if an agency like Salvation Army was willing to help our members, they wouldnt give them any money to do that. Which, you know, left us on a sour note there.
MCGAHA: So, when we came back from the 77 strike, uh, everybody just droppedout of this, we called it BEGNF, you know?
BERNSTEIN: Good neighbor, yeah.
MCGAHA: Boeing employees getting the BEGNF. So, we all dropped out of that. Andwe, uh -- um, you know, just refused to sign up for it, it was kind of in a protest deal, you know? And so, when I went into supervision, um, I didnt belong to BEGNF, had no intention to. And they had a big drive, and they wanted to have, you know, 100% participation, like they always do. And they came to me, and I said, Not interested. Not interested in joining, thank you very 00:20:00much. And we had a superintendent over tooling, and the superintendent had a meeting that I wasnt -- I wasnt at this meeting, but they had, I guess they called it a booster meeting, or something. And they had this meeting, and they said, Well, all of the supervisors are signed up except McGaha, whats with him? Well, he said hes not interested in signing. And he said, Well, if he doesnt sign, thatll negatively impact his career. Oh, OK. So, I didnt know anything about it, but one of the supervisors who had been over there, he said, Hey, theyre going to do something if you dont sign up. I said, I dont care, Im not signing up. So, I didnt. And, uh, they were going to, uh, basically put me back in my bargaining in a position somewhere, you know, they were going to bust me out of supervision, I think. Well, my crew heard about that, somehow or another. I mean, they -- they 00:21:00know everything thats going on anyways.
MCGAHA: And they found out about that, and one of the guys on my crew was MarkBlondin, whos now the vice president of the southern territories.
MCGAHA: And Mark and one of his buddies, they got together, and they organized adrive to go in and collect withdrawal cards for BEGNF. And he came around and he said, Yeah, we got all of these cards. And I said, Well, do me a favor and yourself a favor, give them all to me, because I didnt want him to get in trouble, you know? So, they gave the cards to me, and I just hid them out, you know? I didnt really turn them in. Well, they accused me of organizing this withdrawal campaign.
MCGAHA: And -- and basically put me on indefinite suspension. I mean, literally,fired from the company. So, I -- I -- you know, I said, Well, ask around. I said, You know, youre not going to find anybody out there that will tell 00:22:00you that I did that. And they did. They had a big investigation, they talked to everybody in the whole building out there. Nobody said -- No, he didnt ask us. So, we had a meeting in, um, went down to Auburn, which means nothing to you, but its a southern plant. (laughter) We went down there for a meeting, and this superintendent that had made the threat against me was in the room. So, they came in there and they were all toughed up, you know, big on themselves, and telling me, you know, this -- and I said, Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, Im the injured party here. I said, Im going to make you guys a deal. I said, In this room, theres a person that said that if I didnt join BEGNF, they were going to fire me. And if hell stand up and admit that in front of everybody in this room, Ill quit, and you dont have to fire me. Ill just quit. He didnt.
BERNSTEIN: He didnt?00:23:00
MCGAHA: He did not. He would not even raise his eyes off the table. And I said,Now that weve got that out of the place, I said, I want to be back in my old job, in my old plant, on the same shift, and you have two weeks to make that happen. Two weeks to the day, I was back to my bargaining unit job.
BERNSTEIN: No kidding?
MCGAHA: And got paid for all of the time I was off, so... (laughter) And, butwhat people dont understand, when youre in that position, even though, you know, I was still a union member, you know, by virtue of the fact that I was paying dues, the union cant help you, because youre not under that contract.
MCGAHA: The, uh, National Labor Relations Board cant help you, the Departmentof Labor cant help you, none of the things, the worker protection you have, when youre in there, you have zero protections.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, yes.
MCGAHA: Well, I was in, uh -- after that happened, and I got back to work, Imean, I had every supervisor in tooling called me and thanked me for taking a stand on that.
MCGAHA: Because they didnt have, really, the guts --
BERNSTEIN: Because they didnt want to --
MCGAHA: They didnt have the guts to do it.00:24:00
BERNSTEIN: -- sign up for the Boeing Good Neighbor Fund either, but theydidnt, or --
MCGAHA: Well, some of the -- most of -- in those days, most of the supervisorscame out of the bargaining unit. Now, theyre all --
BERNSTEIN: So, they had the same idea about it?
MCGAHA: Yeah, now theyre all GE clones that go in there, you know, theyrenot really -- you know, they never worked with the tools. So, one day, I was sitting in my office, after I went to work for the union, and this old fellow came in, and he says, I got something you might be interested in. Slammed it down on the table, and it was the Local Lodge seal from the Boeing Supervisors Local, IAM Local. And I still have that Local Lodge seal there.
BERNSTEIN: Oh yeah?
MCGAHA: Because after Taft-Hartley, they -- they could no longer be in theunion. And so, prior to that, even the supervisors were in the union.
MCGAHA: Yeah, so -- So, I still have that Local Lodge seal there as my trophyfor this whole thing, but --
MCGAHA: But, yeah, politically, that was very good for me, because, uh, you00:25:00know, uh, I guess people say, well, the guy takes a stand there, you know, and it was very good.
BERNSTEIN: Take a stand.
MCGAHA: I got elected, uh, to the council twice after -- after that incident.Id been elected prior to that, but two more times beyond that, I got elected to the council.
BERNSTEIN: Nobody held it against you that youd accepted the promotion to supervisor?
MCGAHA: No, no. Actually, it was, uh --
BERNSTEIN: Because sometimes, that happens.
MCGAHA: Yeah. Um, because -- and like I said, in those days, it wasnt -- itwasnt a big deal, because all of the supervisors came out on the bargaining end of it. And, you kno, you came out of --
BERNSTEIN: So, it wasnt unusual.
MCGAHA: Yeah, so one day, youre working with the people, and the next day,theyre working for you, you know? And the highest compliment I ever got out of the crew was, uh -- well, first of all, they all stood up to get my job back. And the other is that, uh, a guy come over here and says, You know, you havent changed a bit. Youre the same guy we used to work with. And I thought that was a high compliment. You know, kind of humbled, but (laughter) it 00:26:00was -- you know, I really appreciated that they felt that way. And to this day, I run into people that are retired, and say, You know, the most fun we ever had was working there in that area, you know, because we worked hard and played hard.
BERNSTEIN: So, what kind of -- uh, what was the -- what were some of therecreational activities.
MCGAHA: For --
BERNSTEIN: Union? Union -- you said you worked hard and you played hard, wassome of the --
MCGAHA: Oh, well, I was talking about as a crew there, you know, they would, uh...
BERNSTEIN: For someone that is union related?
MCGAHA: Well, you know, some of the --
BERNSTEIN: (inaudible) activities, or -- or not so much?
MCGAHA: We would go to, uh -- you know, the crews in those days, back in thosedays, everybody would stop after work for a beer and a pizza, or something, you know, and so, everybody sort of had a little community, or friendship, or family, a little bit, outside of work. Nowadays, you know, people just -- you know, they go to work, they go home, thats -- they dont have that interchange. There was none of that socializing. But, in those days, I mean, everybody socialized together, and -- and, um, I mean, they went fishing 00:27:00together, they went hunting together, they did all kinds of things. I mean, not --
BERNSTEIN: And just as much because you worked on the same crew as because ofthe local --
MCGAHA: Well, it was because you were close to everybody.
BERNSTEIN: Because of the local?
BERNSTEIN: Without the union involvement?
MCGAHA: The union involvement --
BERNSTEIN: Because I always think that unions are so much more multi-layeredthan people understand.
MCGAHA: Yeah, the union involvement there --
BERNSTEIN: So, thats why Im asking.
MCGAHA: I think the union involvement, at that time, didnt have so much to dowith that socializing, other than we did have a lot of social things, uh, at the union, in those days. Wed -- wed have a stewards dance once a year, for all of the shop stewards and their families, and we had an awards benefit for the -- you know, the service pins awards.
MCGAHA: And we had a number of things that were, um -- were social that revolvedaround something that was going on in the union. But the things in the workplace, yeah, we were a little bit different, but they all spilled off into 00:28:00-- into the union, and a lot of it spilled off into the politics of the union, because, you know, you had this -- all of this social network out there, when it came election time, theyd come back and vote for you.
BERNSTEIN: Theyd vote for you, yeah.
MCGAHA: So, it was -- it had -- it did have something to do with the union, butit wasnt necessarily intended to have. So --
BERNSTEIN: So, how long was the strike?
MCGAHA: Which one?
BERNSTEIN: In 77, thats the one that you --
MCGAHA: Seventy-seven was -- Im trying to think that -- I think it was 32 --32 or 36 days, or something like that.
BERNSTEIN: It was a significant amount of time?
MCGAHA: Yeah, it was over a month, yeah.
MCGAHA: Or, 29 -- it mightve been 29 days. Up until that time, there had onlybeen one strike -- well, thered been two strikes prior to that, one in 1948, which essentially broke the union. And in 65, just prior to my hiring in, they had a strike that lasted something like seven days, and the, uh, directing 00:29:00business representative of the district died. And so, they called off the strike, and all went back to work. And I came in right after that strike, is when I hired in. As a matter of fact, I think Boeing actually hired us just prior to, or maybe even during the strike. They didnt mention it, they didnt mention there was a work stoppage or anything going on over there. You know, I was in Wenatchee, and they -- they were around because of my -- I was a pattern maker, they wanted me to come, you know, work tooling. And that was 727-200 series airplanes were being built in, that was a big build up. And they literally had people hired in one door, and laid off out of another door. It was just a revolving door thing they had going on there, because they had recruiters that they put out on the road to hire people, and theyd over hire. And then 00:30:00theyd come back and then, you know, have to balance it out. But I hit the right place at the right time, and stuck right through it. So, I was very, very fortunate in that respect. I mean, theres nowhere in the world could you go, well, certainly not in the United States these days, and work 40 years in the same place.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, its remarkable.
MCGAHA: It just doesnt happen anymore.
MCGAHA: And, uh --
BERNSTEIN: So, it took -- so, how long before you became a full-time union?
MCGAHA: I worked in the shop about 20 years.
BERNSTEIN: Twenty years.
MCGAHA: And then I went to work, um --
BERNSTEIN: And so, was there another strike after that that you -- while youwere still on the job?
MCGAHA: Um, not while I was in the shop. There was, uh -- well, technically, Iwas in the shop in 1989, I -- Id been to -- Id worked for the international, I was in Washington, DC when we formed the organizing department.
MCGAHA: I was one of the coordinators for the organizing department, and then Iwent back to Boeing because nothing, um -- nothing that I was promised was ever delivered, so I said, well, guys, Im sorry, Im not going to, um, you know, disrupt my family life for this. If, you know, its not going to go where you said its going to go. Thats a whole other story, but --
BERNSTEIN: Well get to that, um --
MCGAHA: But anyway, I went to -- uh, I came back to work at The Boeing Companyin 1989, technically as an hourly person, but I was representing the union there in the -- you know, these continuous improvement management, uh, technologies.
BERNSTEIN: Mm-hmm, right.
MCGAHA: I spent a full year over there, we studied it all over the place. Youknow, the -- Im trying to think of all of the gurus out there, you know, Dr. Deming, and -- and [Gerann?], and I forget who the others were. But anyway, all 00:32:00of these quality gurus that are really -- they arent quality, what they are are improving profitability is what it amounts to.
BERNSTEIN: Right, right.
MCGAHA: But then, when they started that whole movement back around 88, orthereabouts, went over there and, uh, travelled all over the country, you know, visiting companies that had implemented these technologies, so-called technologies, management systems, and studied at different -- or took classes at various universities around the country, and got paid to do it, and it was -- it was a great job.
BERNSTEIN: And that was a company-sponsored job?
MCGAHA: It was ah -- The company was doing the study, but I was the unionrepresentative over there.
BERNSTEIN: You were union -- yeah.
MCGAHA: But, technic -- technically, I was an hourly employee. So, I got paid by00:33:00old rate, and you know, got called --
MCGAHA: -- travelled around the country doing that. And out of that, out of myyear over there, we negotiated, um, our joint programs at Boeing, which, uh, were health and safety, and, uh, education were the two things that came out of that. And that joint program is still there, which has equal, you know, management company repre -- representation on the committee.
BERNSTEIN: Huh, so you helped that up (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
MCGAHA: I didnt help set it up, but I, uh, instigated them putting it intothe contract. In other words, I took the -- I took the, uh, head negoiator from Boeing, and -- and our head negotiator, which was our district president at the time, and I -- I took them to an example of that, and I had them look at that, and I gave them, you know, all of the documentation and stuff, about how this could be beneficial to both parties, and then -- and then I was out of the 00:34:00picture, they went in and negotiated it. And actually, I proposed a lot more than we got, but you know, we ended up with those two things. And, um...
BERNSTEIN: So, from what -- from when you were working in the shop in the 70sand early 80s, before that, did you -- did you see potential for that kind of management leader --
MCGAHA: When I worked in the shop --
BERNSTEIN: -- cooperation initiatives, or --
MCGAHA: No, when I worked in the shop, it wasnt a problem, and Ill tellyou what has happened to, uh, well, basically, American industry. But when I worked in the shop, and I first hired in at Boeing, like I said, most of the managers were ex-hourly people. And Boeing was the old clich, it was a family. In that, everybody was there to do one thing, and that was build airplanes, and we did it. And you did a lot of these things that these total quality management 00:35:00systems say that are the right things to do, but it was very informal, it wasnt -- you know, it wasnt documented or anything, but you have information I need, I come to you and ask you for the information, you give me the information, Id get my job done, and nobody would know any of the difference. Well, under the total quality management systems, we have to document all of that stuff. That when I run into this problem, I have to go see you, and then I have to do this, I have to do that. So, you totally document the whole process. Well, what has happened with all of that documentation now, theyve used that to offload the work. In other words, they take -- now that you have your process documented, you can take that work and send it anywhere around the world, and they open the book, and they follow the process, and they get the work done that you spent a career getting the knowledge to do. And so, it was never a problem when I worked in the shop. Then in, about, like I said, 00:36:001988, well, probably starting prior to that, but there was this big wave across the country, they were going to, ah -- everybody was switching to these Total Quality Management Systems, otherwise known as TQMS.
MCGAHA: And I visited, uh, McDonnell Douglas in California, and they wererunning their TQMS systems, and they took the -- they fired every manager at McDonnell Douglas, and brought them into a hangar, and had them reapply for their jobs. There were people who had heart attacks, people committed suicide, there were all kinds of things going on. And they were talking about the glories of this TQMS.
MCGAHA: So, the people that I talked to at McDonnell Douglas, they said TQMSmeans Time to quit and move to Seattle, because Boeing had not started that yet, but they were in the process of starting it.
MCGAHA: So, from the time I went to work full-time at the union until thatstarted, was probably five years, four years, whatever it was. And, uh, it just changed the workplace completely. It just absolutely -- basically destroyed the working relationship of departments, and everything else, in my view. And so, no, it never...
BERNSTEIN: And did -- did nobody in management understand that?
MCGAHA: They dont care, they do not care. Theyre all under that damn, uh,General Electric, you know --
BERNSTEIN: This is all --
MCGAHA: -- uh, whats his name -- anyway, they were all clones out of thatGeneral Electric model.
MCGAHA: Which is not about making product, its about making profit. So, ifthe company can be profitable, they dont care about doing anything.
BERNSTEIN: What the quality is.
MCGAHA: They dont care. Quality is something that has to be there in orderfor them to, you know, get rid of the product and stuff. But if they can do it 00:38:00without building a product, and just make money, they would, and thats the reason we have no industry in this country, is because most of whats going on now is generating profit, and not making a product. And they leave the making of the product to whoever they can get the lowest bidder, and every time you go back, it all looks different, you know?
MCGAHA: Most of the stuff we buy now is junk.
BERNSTEIN: It is.
MCGAHA: You know, its just junk.
BERNSTEIN: Built to be obsolete, and --
MCGAHA: Yeah. Anyway.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, but --
MCGAHA: Again, were getting off -- off -- kind of off the track, but I wasinvolved in studying that, and the -- the assignment was was to, you know, study it and report back. And the only thing that we got out of that, that was worthy of implementing, in my view, was the fact that we have, um, funds available for members to use in any kind of education they want to use it for. Every year they get, I dont know, $3,000 or something. 00:39:00
MCGAHA: And, uh, then we have a health and safety committee there thats --you know, has improved safety quite a bit. As far as the company goes, I dont know what their total benefit out of -- is out of it, other than some of those people do take classes, or take -- get degrees or whatever, that, you know, will work for the company. But in most cases, the person gets a degree and they move on and get out of there, its not the same. We used to have family -- I mean, generations of families, and they still do, but they had generations, you know, two or three generations working there at the same time. I have no family members working there, but, uh -- (laughter)
MCGAHA: But, uh, yeah, I know a number of people, you know, you hear a name,Do you know so and so? Oh yeah, thats my dad, or my granddad, or whatever.
BERNSTEIN: Right, right, a lot of connections.
MCGAHA: And, uh, but when they merged with McDonnell Douglas, it just absolutely00:40:00destroyed that company. I would not --
BERNSTEIN: Were you still there?
MCGAHA: Um, the only --
BERNSTEIN: You were working for the union?
MCGAHA: I was working for the union at the time, yeah. I was working for theunion, then. So, anyway, getting out of the shop and into the union, like I said, I started as an organizer, and then I came back for a brief period of time, and then I was, uh, um, appointed by the district president as administrative assistant to the president. And that was 1990. And I was administrative assistant until I retired in 2005 with three different presidents. And three -- (laughter) Well, I, uh --
BERNSTEIN: Youve seen it all.
MCGAHA: Well, Ive seen them come and seen them go. But, I was, uh, quitehonored that each new president that came in, uh, asked me to be the administrative assistant. (overlapping dialogue)
BERNSTEIN: Hired you on. Lets go back to when you were first hired as anorganizer for the union, and you said it didnt -- there wasnt enough 00:41:00support, and thats why you went back.
MCGAHA: No, well, that was -- that was later. Uh, as an organizer, when I wasworking in the district, those folks you were talking about there, the non-union folks in the plant -- we were doing a lot of in-plant organizing. We did some other, you know, new units as well, but main assignment was to get those non-union, uh, people signed up. And we started out, we had about, well, high 70s membership, high 70 percentage membership.
MCGAHA: And when we finished organizing about, oh, what was it, probably, fouryears after that. Three -- no, it wasnt that long, it was probably three years after that, we got up to 96% membership.
MCGAHA: And then they were able to negotiate a modified closed shop in thecontract, did away with the need for in-plant organizing after that.
BERNSTEIN: Right. Thats impressive.00:42:00
MCGAHA: Just, uh, about the time that was going on, international, uh, called meand wanted me to, uh, do -- be one of the coordinators out of Washington, DC. I went to work with the international and the, m, vice president I had, or, that hired me, uh, he ended up, uh, retiring or something about that time. And so, the coordinator job that I was supposed to have never really developed. And so, I said, well -- and I had to take a pay cut to take the job.
MCGAHA: I mean, it wasnt like I was, you know, going --
MCGAHA: -- getting big bucks or anything. I actually had, uh, less money than Iwas making at the district. So, I said, well, this is not for me, because I would have to sell my house in Washington and buy a house back here, and at that time, you could buy a very nice house in the Seattle area for about $90,000 -- $80,000-90,000, and in DC, it was, like, quarter of a million. 00:43:00
BERNSTEIN: Really? Quite a bit more, yeah.
MCGAHA: You know? And not near as much house either.
MCGAHA: I wonder if thats -- let me take that, you want to...
BERNSTEIN: Sure, were going to take a little pause
MCGAHA: Take it --
BERNSTEIN: Hang on, oh, that makes sense. OK. Yeah, were back. Uh, so,speaking of Maria, how did the Rat Pack --
MCGAHA: Well, I had, uh -- I had met Maria some years back, and, um, we did, um-- get off on all these tangents here, but (laughter) uh, we had a, uh, food bank in Seattle that, uh, is the labor agency food bank. And they were absolutely broke, they could not make payroll or anything else. And Don Brannon and I of-- the guy I worked with there -- we were going to do this motorcycle ride around the US. And, um -- on Harleys. And Harley Owners Group, HOGS, has a, 00:44:00um, ride, they call it ABCs of touring. And so, you go to any town, starting with A, or B, or C, or D, you get a point for that. And you get a point, same the way with counties, you get a point for each state, you get a point for each country, youve got several ways to make these points. So, Don was going to ride around the country, and he showed me the route, and I said, Well, you know, we jog over here and there, we could see all 48 lower states in about the same amount of time. And he said, Yeah, lets do that. So, were getting ready to do this, and this thing with the food bank came up, and then so...
BERNSTEIN: And this is after youre retired?
MCGAHA: No, no.
BERNSTEIN: No, when is this?
MCGAHA: This is way back, its 93.
MCGAHA: Im skipping all over.
BERNSTEIN: Thats OK, as long as we stick to one story at a time, I need tolocate it, 93, OK, go ahead. 00:45:00
MCGAHA: So, in 1993, and we -- you know, they -- I was on the, uh, King CountyLabor Council, I was the vice president, or board member, or something at the time there. And the labor agency, you know, they come up and made the report, and basically, they were broke. And so, I said, Well, were going to make this ride. I said, If you figure you can raise some money for that, and I get pledges for miles, I said, Well do that. And they said, Well, what are you going to call it? And I said, Well, were Harley Owners Groups, I said, Why dont we call it HOGS For Hunger. Well, 13 years later, we were still doing HOGS For Hunger. (laughter)
BERNSTEIN: Its a great name. (laughter)
MCGAHA: So, we were still doing that, and, uh, the first year, we raised about$3,500, which allowed them to make their payroll. And cumulative, over that time, weve raised about a quarter of a million dollars doing that. Just two guys riding, I mean, it was not...
BERNSTEIN: It wasnt just two guys the first time, its two guys every --every time?
MCGAHA: No, same two guys, same two guys. We just go ride somewhere, and people,you know... 00:46:00
BERNSTEIN: And people pledge to...
MCGAHA: People pay money, you know, to get you to do it. So, one year, I cantrecall what year it was. Uh...
BERNSTEIN: Thats quite the fundraising strategy. Its very...
MCGAHA: No, its just two guys, they pay you to leave town.
BERNSTEIN: Right. (laughter)
MCGAHA: So, we went on a, uh -- we did a combination of -- of the, uh -- of the,uh, food bank and guide dogs. And so, we were kind of -- had a split in the money there. And we went around the country. And, uh, I think it was George Kourpias -- uh, I dont remember if it was George, or if it was Tom Buffenbarger. Anyway, one of them, I dont remember who was president at the time, but anyway, uh, they assigned Maria to be our -- kind of our escort, or whatever, in Washington, DC. And shed just -- I think shed just taken over the departments at that time. So, we come riding into town, and we meet Maria, 00:47:00and shes, you know, bubbly and everything, and showing us -- and all excited about the motorcycles and everything. And she set up this ride for us in town, had the -- whatever the county sheriff was down there in Maryland, escort us to the Washington, DC border, and then the Capital Police took her -- the, uh, Washington, DC police, whatever they called it, they took us there. And they took us right up the steps of the Capitol, and then the Capitol Police took us up there, and we parked right on the steps of the Capitol with our bikes.
BERNSTEIN: (laughter) With your bikes! Goodness!
MCGAHA: Yeah, with our bikes. And a couple of our Washington State Congresspeople came out and handed us checks, you know, and all of that stuff. So, we -- I dont know, we raised $38,000 or something for Guide Dogs that year.
BERNSTEIN: Thats amazing!
MCGAHA: Just -- just, you know, goofing off, basically.
MCGAHA: Having a good time. But, anyway, that was our first time we met Maria,and she took us -- and we parked bikes, and she took us around the car, you 00:48:00know, giving us a tour of the town. And we went into the Hawk and Dove there in Washington, DC, and we were sitting out having breakfast, and Maria went in to make a phone call or something, and I hear these -- I think theyre wearing clogs or something, because I hear this clunk, clunk, clunk, and I look out of the corner of my eye, and I see some woman, and I didnt realize it was her. I see some woman coming along there, and all of a sudden, she tripped, theres a little mismatch in the floor or something there, and she tripped, and went head first into one of those big chrome barstools.
MCGAHA: Knocked her unconscious.
BERNSTEIN: Oh my God!
MCGAHA: Absolutely unconscious. Blood running out of her eye and everything.(laughter) And Don says, Well, thats Maria. So, we go over there, we pick her up, you know, and (laughter) cant get her to go to the doctor or anything, but that was my first meeting with Maria. And that was --
MCGAHA: -- with the HOGS For Hunger, yeah. (laughter)
BERNSTEIN: And that cemented your bond from the get-go.
MCGAHA: Yeah, we were -- weve been good friends ever since. You know, you00:49:00pull somebody out of a barroom brawl, I guess. (laughter)
MCGAHA: Anyhow, the, um --
MCGAHA: I dont know how we got on that part of the story either, but, uh --
BERNSTEIN: Oh, well, I asked you about the Rat Pack.
MCGAHA: The Rat Pack, uh, Maria, you know, like I said, weve always been kindof close from that point on, I -- I retired in 2005, and just before I retired, she says, Youve got to come out here and work the Rat Pack. And Id been doing things with her with the retiree department prior to that, but not, you know, full-time, because I didnt -- couldnt devote full-time. But anything she needed, or anything we could help each other with, we did. And she calls me up and says, Oh, youve got to come out here. So, I went out to Placid Harbor for a meeting, uh, as -- officially now as part of the Rat Pack. And, uh, while I was at that meeting, uh, got a call, and my wife got in the hospital. 00:50:00
MCGAHA: And, uh, anyway, the next day she died, so --
BERNSTEIN: Oh my God.
BERNSTEIN: Thats so sudden.
MCGAHA: Anyway, um -- anyway, she -- Maria drafted me before I retired, uh,officially retired, I guess, and -- and, uh, had her hooks in me until she retired. (laughter) And Charlie took that over, and he kind of somewhat continued the Rat Pack, but modified thins to, you know, kind of modernize them, and improve --
BERNSTEIN: So, what was -- tell me -- tell me what the Rat Pack is, was --
MCGAHA: The Rat Pack was a group of, uh --
BERNSTEIN: -- tell me -- tell me about it --
MCGAHA: Well, the group -- well, pretty much, it was, you know, senior peoplethat had been involved in, uh, politics and various things in their working careers. I mean, they were all, uh, former full-time staff type, for the most 00:51:00part, they were. And she used us to, uh, to help develop these programs within, uh, uh -- you know, within her department. And, uh, for political action and various things. So, the Rat Pack was just her close confidants that she could rely on for, you know, moral support, or advice, or help, or whatever.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah. And what do you think a couple of the most effective programsthat came out of that effort?
MCGAHA: Well, before Maria was in there, I mean, essentially, there was noretiree department, and it was -- you know, there was people there, but she basically, uh, was instrumental in making this a department, you know, making it a retiree department, and having -- and she, um, lead the way in making the, uh, uh, full-time officers, and so on, understand that the retirees are resourced, 00:52:00not just a burden, or somebody you have to pat on the head and what not.
MCGAHA: Because you can actually, uh, get some benefit out of there, you know, Imean, throw away 40 years of knowledge, or you can use it.
BERNSTEIN: Or you can be smart.
MCGAHA: Yeah. Or you could use it.
MCGAHA: So, Maria was very instrumental in getting that started. And she worked,uh, with Charlie when he was an educator down in, uh, Placid Harbor. And she had -- so, he was a natural to take over when she left, because, you know, he helped develop some of those programs with her.
MCGAHA: And, uh, but she was the driving force in that. I mean, she -- if ithadnt been for Maria, there wouldnt have been any of that. And the Rat Pack was, like I said, the people she surrounded herself with to, uh, you know --
BERNSTEIN: To make it happen.
MCGAHA: -- give advice on that. You know, because --
BERNSTEIN: OK, it just says you were the funniest group of people that she evermet. So --
MCGAHA: Oh, God.00:53:00
BERNSTEIN: So, do you have any memories, other than smashing herself into abarstool --
MCGAHA: Oh, well --
BERNSTEIN: -- to make an impression when she met you.
MCGAHA: Well, the thing about it is that, you know, everybody, uh, you know,once youre retired, you know, you may not have to be nearly as politically correct as you once were. And so, all of these guys just tell it like -- like it is, you know? (laughter) And every one of them were from, you know, a different, uh, parts of the industry, you know, some were from airlines, some were from our manufacturing, and, um, I dont know, we were just from all over the place. And -- and, uh, we -- we had these little meetings, we had Frank Ortis down here, hes the mayor of Pembrooke Pines in Pem -- its Pembrooke Pines in Florida. And hes actually the mayor down there now, but hes --
MCGAHA: -- a retired machinist, I think, out of Eastern Airlines. And Frank hasto tell a joke every time he sits down, or six or eight jokes every time he sits 00:54:00down. And so, everybody was always laughing, and cutting up, and everything. But, you know, getting serious, and getting the work done, but everybodys laughing and cutting up all the time, because hell, were retired, we dont need to be -- (laughter) you dont have to take all of this stuff serious, you know? But, uh, yeah, I cant say enough good about Maria as far as her, you know, just staying with it, and just like a bulldog, you know, making this stuff happen, and creating this.
BERNSTEIN: Just what it takes to make anything happen, right?
MCGAHA: Yeah. And she -- I mean, she fought for money, and she -- and what I didwith Maria, uh, she -- she knighted me the administrative assistant, because that was my job before I retired. But I would, uh, work with her, you know, I worked with her on several of these conferences, in putting them together, and that sort of thing.
BERNSTEIN: The retirees conferences?00:55:00
MCGAHA: Retiree conferences. And before I retired, I had attended a couple ofher retiree conferences just as a guest, you know, just dropped in and said hello, and all of that. And so, when I retired, she put me to work helping her with that. But she, like I said, shed fight tooth and nail to get the money to do this stuff, and, uh, convince people. And I think to a man, and now a woman, on the executive council, I would think that nearly all of them, probably, understand now that -- the importance of that. You know, is that -- is that youve got a hell of a resource out here. They got more retired machinists than we have full-time machinists.
BERNSTEIN: Right. Yeah, its a resource of increasing importance --
BERNSTEIN: -- as the numbers shrink in manufacturing, yeah.
MCGAHA: Yeah. So, you need to -- you know, you need to use it where you can.And, uh, Tom Lux who was interviewed in the other room there, hes -- God, and I cant even think of how many organizing drives hes been on since he 00:56:00retired, and, um, then he went to Ohio, you know, and so on.
MCGAHA: And Ive been active, you know, locally with our, uh -- well, I wasthe vice president of the state labor council. So, when I retired, I kind of had to almost the permanent chair of their COPE Committee, which is the Committee On Political Education, for their fundraising. And so, I fundraise for them every year, for a couple of days a year, whatever. But I stay in touch that way.
BERNSTEIN: Got it.
BERNSTEIN: Always something to do, isnt there?
MCGAHA: Yeah. They, uh, last year, they decided they were going to have theYoung Emerging Labor Leaders do this, and they -- they had 40 of them, and they raised $400. So, this year, they said, You know, Ron, we really need you to come back.
MCGAHA: And I said, Well, OK, Ill come down there. So -- so, I raised,uh -- I think I raised $13,000. (laughter) No, its just how you ask for it, you know?
BERNSTEIN: Yeah. Its an art. How early on did you get married?
MCGAHA: I got married in 1966, right after I went to work at Boeing. Married 39 years.
BERNSTEIN: And was your wife a -- a union -- does she come from a union family?
MCGAHA: Her dad was a -- a union guy, he came out of shipyards, and was an automechanic. And, uh, just before he died, he died early, because, like I said, hed been in shipyards, and an auto mechanic, around the asbestos.
MCGAHA: And he died from, uh, what do they call it, um --
MCGAHA: Yeah, yeah.
MCGAHA: Anyway, he died from that. And a short -- it wasnt too long after we00:58:00got married. But, uh, when he was in the hospital, just, almost dead, the vote count came in, uh, he helped organize the auto mechanics there in his shop.
MCGAHA: And, uh -- well, I take it back, he had -- they had already had thevote, but he went in there, and they voted to accept the contracts, while he was almost dead in the hospital, so the poor guy never got the benefit of it. But he helped organize it. So... And shes a -- she was a, uh, beautician, so she -- you know, by the time she went into the trade, all of the barbers, and hairdressers, and stuff, unions had pretty much faded out.
MCGAHA: You know, it used to be big, you know, that was a big deal, you know?Nearly all of the barbers were union at one time, hairdressers too.
BERNSTEIN: Isnt that amazing? Something people dont know these days.
MCGAHA: Yeah, you know, they --
BERNSTEIN: So, she -- it was easy for her to support you in your union?
MCGAHA: Oh yeah. Yeah, if it hadnt been for her, Id have never made it,00:59:00because, you know, it takes a special kind of person to sit at home, day -- you know, the day when youre in there, you know, fighting battles with the cmpany, you know, because basically, its a -- you know, you come home, change clothes, and go back and do it again, you know? And its nice to have all of the clothes nice and clean when you came home, you know? (laughter) No, she was very supportive, and, uh, very understanding of it. And just absolutely...
BERNSTEIN: Did she get involved in -- did you do...
MCGAHA: Not a lot.
BERNSTEIN: I always wonder if families are involved in the union, or just --
MCGAHA: Some are and some arent. But she was involved where she thought itwas appropriate. She didnt get in -- you know, we have -- this actually, is a problem sometimes. You know, you get family members that kind of stick their nose into union politics or something.
BERNSTEIN: And get a little too involved.
MCGAHA: Excuse me, youre not a shareholder here, other than a secondaryshareholder, because people that are directly involved with that, you know, thats their business, and if you stick your nose in it, and youre not part 01:00:00of it, you know, you can get punched in the nose pretty easily. So, she went to a number of things when I first got involved. You know, we went to -- you know, you go out of town on a trip or something, I include her on that. And right away, she decided that, you know, when youre on one of these -- like going to this conference here. Youre wandering around, and youre socializing, and youre doing other things that people dont even realize youre actually doing something there because youre talking to people all the time.
BERNSTEIN: Right, right.
MCGAHA: And she said, Well, you know -- she didnt really think thatshe needed to be there to sit and watch me walk around the room, you know? (laughter) But she accepted that, and understood that was going to be, uh, you know, if youre going to be in this business, thats the way it was going to be. So, that was my biggest regret, you know, we didnt get to share any of that retirement, this (inaudible), so that was kind of a -- kind of a bad deal. 01:01:00But, um, that is life, I guess.
BERNSTEIN: Did she -- it sounds like there were a couple of times where you madea hard decision about taking a stand. Did she -- did you talk about it with her?
MCGAHA: Well, yeah. And, um, either before or after the fact, depending on --
BERNSTEIN: Depending on the situation.
MCGAHA: She -- she was always very supportive of it, you know? She hatedinjustice as much as I did, and, uh, she -- you know, if -- if the story sounded good, she was supportive of it, you know? She didnt, uh, uh -- I never once heard her say, Dummy, why did you do that? you know? She just basically processed the information and, you know, stood by you. So, that was really, uh, a good thing. We never had any children, so, you know, we were basically, uh, supporting each other. In fact the motorcycles, we used to ride, um, our Boeing 01:02:00employees motorcycle club, we started riding on there, and we spent, oh, probably in the first year on the bike, we went out every weekend and went camping. One day, she came in and she says, Heres the deal, were going to stay in motels, we are not camping. (laughter)
MCGAHA: She drew a line on that one, and thats, uh...
BERNSTEIN: Wait, she went camping with you, or she was...
MCGAHA: Oh yeah, we went camping together on a bike.
BERNSTEIN: And then she had enough of it?
MCGAHA: Yeah, she said -- because, you know, like I said, she was a hairdresser,she wanted her hair fixed just right, didnt want a helmet crushing it.
BERNSTEIN: Hard to do if youre camping. Thats so true.
MCGAHA: And she says, Thats it, if were not going to a motel, werenot going. I said OK. (laughter)
BERNSTEIN: Fair enough.
MCGAHA: And Ive been biking ever since, and moteling ever since.
BERNSTEIN: Oh yeah? You didnt --01:03:00
MCGAHA: Dont regret it a bit, I dont like camping either anymore.
MCGAHA: So, yeah, I think that the, uh -- in this business, you know, in theunion business, if youre, either a real active activist, or a full-time officer, and doing your job, if you dont have, uh, family support, you cant -- you just cant do it. Youll either end up in a divorce, or you know, fighting all the time, or something --
MCGAHA: -- if you dont have somebody that fully understands what youredoing. And Ive always -- when wed get a new rep, or a potential, or whatever, Id sit him down with a father son and advise him. And Id say, Now, look, before you decide to take this job, you need to sit down and talk to your wife, or significant other, husband, whatever it was, and you need to talk to them, explain to them that, you know, as bad as you say its going to 01:04:00be, its going to be worse than that, because youre not -- you know, youre going to be, um, home every night. And I did the same thing with union stewards. I said, You know, if youve -- you know, if youre in a bowling league, you should just enjoy bowling. You know, if youve got kids playing baseball, maybe you ought to just stay home with them and go to their games and that stuff. Because, I said, Youre really going to truly, uh, be in this job, youre in that for a whole lot of people other than your family. And I said, Your family, certainly, is first, but theres a lot of other people depend on you there, and you need to really do some soul searching to see if this is right for you. Because -- And some of them backed out, but some of them, Oh yeah, Ill go, Ill go, Ill go. And then they get in there and they find out, well, yeah, that was no exaggeration, you know? (laughter) But, like I said, I was one of the lucky ones in that I had a wife that really supported -- you know, the whole -- I cant 01:05:00say she always liked it. I would think she probably -- many times, probably didnt, but, uh, she was very supportive of it. And so, uh, not everybody gets that luxury, so --
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, thats a very special thing.
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. So, you worked for three international presidents?
MCGAHA: Uh, district presidents.
BERNSTEIN: District presidents.
MCGAHA: District presidents. I, uh, at 751 district, uh, first was Tom Baker,and Tom got into some trouble, uh, skimming airfares. And actually, he got prosecuted, and went to jail for a year. And, uh, but he did a lot of good for our membership as far as negotiations. I mean, weve got -- I mean, you go down the list of things we have today that he helped negotiate. And, uh, I think every member thats still around that remembers him has probably forgiven him for all of his transgressions, you know? But he was a -- he was a real, um, old 01:06:00school kind of a negotiator, you know, with the company. I mean, build friendships, relationships, sat down and talked about what each side needs, put something together, and both sides come out pretty good. And then the second one was Bill Johnson...
BERNSTEIN: Wait, before we move on.
MCGAHA: Go ahead.
BERNSTEIN: When he got caught up out in his transgressions, was -- were youinvolved in setting up mechanisms to make sure it didnt happen again?
MCGAHA: Well --
BERNSTEIN: Or was that --
MCGAHA: Peripherally, yeah, I was.
BERNSTEIN: Not really?
MCGAHA: But, uh, at the time, uh, in that capacity, I was not really on thedistrict council, but I was the, uh -- basically, the administrator to the president is now called chief of staff. But basically, you fill in for the president when theyre not there. You know, you do whatever it is, you make the reports, and personnel issues, and everything like that.
MCGAHA: So, as far as the, uh -- directly being involved with that, a lot ofwhat came out of that were, basically, Department of Labor rules, and we incorporated those in the bylaws. But we had already changed our bylaws to disallow what he was doing, and he went ahead and did it anyway. Thats what got him in trouble with the DOL, because he wasnt following our bylaws. But long story short, uh, he was taking first class airfare, and flying coach, and pocketing the difference. Thats what the accusation and the coniction was over.
MCGAHA: So, it was a minimal amount of money in the greater scale of things, Ithink it was only about $30,000, but you know, its still -- it was wrong, and you shouldnt have done it, and he got caught, and punished for it, and thats over and done. But he was a -- he was just a natural with people as far 01:08:00as getting people to work together, and move as a -- as a team, he was just a natural at that, it was just a gift. And its just heartbreaking that, you know, it got crossed --
BERNSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah.
MCGAHA: Yeah. And then our second, uh -- the second president I had there wasMark -- or, excuse me, uh, Bill Johnson. And Bill passed away this year. Uh, Bill was right out of the shop, he had never held a full-time position at all. And he -- when, uh, Tom Baker left, Bill Johnson was thrust into this job that, you know, somebody said, oh, lets run Bill, and they ran Bill and got him elected. Well, like I said, he never had any full-time experience at all.
BERNSTEIN: Now, was -- was there any thought of you running for that position?
MCGAHA: Uh, I wasnt on the council, so I wasnt eligible to.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, got it, OK.01:09:00
MCGAHA: So, he was on the district council --
BERNSTEIN: I see.
MCGAHA: -- and they -- they picked him, he was kind of a non-controversialcandidate, which we needed at the time, because there was a heck of a lot of controversy around the outgoing president. And so, you know, I kind of, uh -- you know, helped him wherever I could on there, you know, and he did the best he could. But, like I said, he was ill-equipped when he came in there. By his second term, he was starting to get the hang of things, but that first term was pretty rocky for him, because he -- he had never -- never had, uh, you know, dealt with a bunch of egotistical business reps, (laughter) he had a heck of a first term on that.
MCGAHA: And then, the last, uh -- the last one was Mark -- or, yeah, MarkBlondin, whos now the southern territories vice president. But Mark is the one that, uh, got me fired, basically, (laughter) from Boeing, you know, with 01:10:00the BEGNF thing.
MCGAHA: And, we laugh about that all the time, but -- but, when he hired in, Iwas his supervisor, and when I retired, he was mine. So, that was -- what goes around comes around.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, yeah.
MCGAHA: But, yeah, hes -- uh, Mark was -- Mark was probably the bestcombination of all of them, as far as -- Bill Johnson, even though he was non-full -- never been full-time, he was very good with a contract. He -- he really understood the contract, what it meant, and what it should say and everything. And Baker was the real dealmaker, and he pulled people together, and Mark could do all of that. He was contract, he pulled people together --
BERNSTEIN: And (inaudible).
MCGAHA: -- people loved the guy, and you know, he was easy to work with. And so,01:11:00he was -- he was the perfect balance all the way through that. And -- and as far as I know, still is. I dont -- I dont know what the new -- what the people who work for him now think, but I -- I have nothing but praise for him as well, because he was just a -- he was a good student. Yeah, well --
BERNSTEIN: So, most of what you did in all of those years, with those people,are there particular examples that come to mind in terms of a crisis you solved, or a --
MCGAHA: Well, I dont know if its crisis I solved, but crisis that I wasinvolved with. (laughter) The -- uh, certainly in 1992 when Baker went down was -- that was --
BERNSTEIN: A real stress?
MCGAHA: That was the --
MCGAHA: -- absolute definition of stress, because every day in the newspaper,there would be something. We had members so mad, they wanted to kill people. I mean, we had bomb threats, we had... 01:12:00
BERNSTEIN: And these were people who were mad at him, or who were supporting himand mad?
MCGAHA: They were -- they were mad.
BERNSTEIN: Got it.
MCGAHA: I mean, they were just -- because, you know, its -- heres myunion, and theyre doing this, and you know, so suddenly, they lose confidence in the union, they lose in everything. And our team got together, and -- and basically, you know, would -- its -- its like an organizing drive. I mean, youre starting over every time this happens, you are starting over.
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, thats true.
MCGAHA: And day and night, it was that way. And, uh, people kind of got down on-- on Bill Johnson as well, because we had a -- I forget now what he -- what happened, but I mean, he didnt do anything bad, he just, you know, was --
BERNSTEIN: Made some enemies --
MCGAHA: Well, it was kind of -- well, it was kind of a, uh, I would write it offas, uh, nave leadership, or whatever, you know? And he had a -- kind of an abrasive way about him. It was -- everything was, you know, very confrontational 01:13:00when you get him started. And so, he wouldnt go to the meetings, and I would have to do all of the reports. And so, I made the reports for, I dont know, two or three years, every report made to a local lodge, I had to make it, so I had to get up there and take all of the heat. And so, for, I think, six years of my life, I was in controversial meetings, you know, and answering questions over, and over, and over again. I mean, it was just -- it seemed like it would never end. And, uh, that was one --
BERNSTEIN: And the kinds of issues would be -- it would be making a report abouta negotiation, and --
MCGAHA: It could be contractual --
BERNSTEIN: -- people would not be happy with what was going on?
MCGAHA: Internal politics, I mean, you -- the whole gamut of what was going on.You know, it -- at the word play. Whatever they were mad about that day, they come to the meeting to complain.
BERNSTEIN: Came down to you?
MCGAHA: And I would get the, uh -- you know, Id have to stand up there andtake the heat for that, and survived it somehow or another. (laughter)
BERNSTEIN: Which is a skill.01:14:00
MCGAHA: I guess. And, but our original -- my original, uh -- not the original,but one of the early political, uh, involvements I had, switching gears on you again, but the, uh -- we had three -- three tickets running for the internal offices. We had our group and then it had another group. We were, uh, mainly out of Renton and Auburn. And then had a group that was out of Seattle, which was called plant two, and, uh, Everett didnt have much involvement, but they -- you know, they had somebody from Everett. But then they had what was called a staff ticket, which was all of the incumbents. And we had an election, and -- for district council, and the staff won all but one of those positions. And they 01:15:00had, uh, intentionally allowed a person on our ticket run that was not qualified to run. I dont know if they did it intentionally, but they didnt raise the issue.
MCGAHA: So, when one of their guys didnt get elected, they decided they wouldcontest the election based on this other guys eligibility.
MCGAHA: He had not been working at the trade for a full year, and so hecouldnt run. So, they reran the election.
MCGAHA: And, uh, one of my early mentors, he calls me up and he says, Do youwant to get on the council? And I said, Well, the elections over, he says, Theyre going to rerun it, you need to get down here. So, I lived in Redmond and drove down to Seattle, which is about, uh, 18 miles, or something like that. And I jumped in my pickup, and Im heading down there, and Im designing literature, and filling in the names of whoever should be running to make a ticket that would win, and did a combination of these other tickets. 01:16:00
MCGAHA: You know, you, you, you, you, and you. And we get down there, and afterthe meeting -- I called a meeting, and had all of these people come together, and I said, Now, you know, were going to rerun this election, and we need to make this solid so we can get -- you know, get this thing back on track, because theres a lot of dissension with all of these tickets running. And, um, so we argued aout that for about a week, and then used a piece of literature I designed with the names already filled in, and thats who we ran, and we took every spot.
BERNSTEIN: No kidding.
MCGAHA: And the -- the person that was the district president at the time, BillWalkum, God rest his soul, uh, he didnt make the council, so he couldnt run for district president. (laughter) So, we wiped them all out, we just wiped him out. And to this day, uh, pretty much that whole team that, you know, with the new additions and stuff --
BERNSTEIN: That you put together in your 18-mile drive?
MCGAHA: -- is -- is still there, yeah, theyre still there. And theyre --
BERNSTEIN: I guess it was a good call.
MCGAHA: Well, it --01:17:00
BERNSTEIN: In terms of balancing --
MCGAHA: It was a good balance for sure. And its -- like I said, it stayedpretty much intact with a few exceptions. Theres a couple that -- you know, people that made it through the, uh, election process that we werent supporting. But for the most part, the whole team is still there versus mostly new people. But I always take a bit of pride thinking of that, that these guys have actually stuck together, you know?
MCGAHA: But --
BERNSTEIN: Thats impressive.
MCGAHA: Yeah, you give them a -- give them a direction, let them go. But, youknow, theyve -- Ive been gone so long now that I dont know. The, uh -- it seems to be the same -- same, uh -- at least the same philosophy, anyway. Thats a --
BERNSTEIN: So, as a retire -- youve been a very active retiree, as Iunderstand it. And some of that has been involved in political campaigns? 01:18:00
MCGAHA: Yeah, were -- some political campaigns, and, uh, like I said, thefundraising for -- for political action, and then -- just working with Marias Rat Pack, and with Charlie, and so, done a lot of that, yeah.
BERNSTEIN: And you were involved in Scrap The Cap?
MCGAHA: Oh yeah, Scrap The Cap.
BERNSTEIN: Can you talk about that a little bit?
MCGAHA: Well, Scrap the Cap, uh, Kathy Cummins, who used to work for ourinternational, works for the, uh, State Labor Council, and, uh, I used to do a lot of, in my capacity as the administrative assistant, I somehow or another got to be the official cheerleader, you know, at rallies, and contracts, and stuff. And I wrote a thing some years back, it was back in the mid-90s, I wrote a thing about -- uh, talking about jobs. And I always called it a rage, everybody else called it a rap. But it was -- you know, it was --
BERNSTEIN: (laughter) OK.01:19:00
MCGAHA: Give you -- give you a short version of it. But, uh, its like, Youdont want to talk about jobs, you dont want to talk about the toys came over on a ship, or that foreign wine that you like to sip, or your Lexus car that you think is hip, dont want no training tip, or a damn pink slip, I want to talk about jobs. And then youd say, Whose jobs? And theyd say, Our jobs. And, Whose jobs? Our jobs. What kind of jobs? Union jobs. And this always got their blood going at these rallies. And, theres a million verses, you know, its one of these zipper deals, you can put a -- a verse in wherever you want it.
MCGAHA: Depending on what the thing was about. So, anyway, everybody always, uh-- every time you see them, oh, talking about jobs, talking about jobs. Elected politicians and everybody else, because, you know, some of these election rallies, we did that same little rap thing. So, anyway, these -- uh, Social Security Works Washington, and the Economics Opportunities Institute, I guess it 01:20:00was called, they were going to put together a rap video. One of their kids working down at the intern or something decided to, you know, make his rap video about Social Security, you know, we could reach a whole audience out there, and -- and get the message out. So, I get a call from this -- of course, Im retired now, and I get a call from Kathy Cummins, she says, Hey, uh, I just volunteered you for a video, and I said, A video? What kind of video? And she said, Well, I just had a meeting down here with these people, and they were looking for somebody. And I said, I know somebody that can rap. And I said, Youre out of your mind. (laughter) So, anyway, we went down to listen to what they had to say and everything, and I said, OK, Ill give it a try. But I said, I -- Im no rapper. And the lady in there, Sally David, she was a producer out at, uh, uh, PBS local affiliate there, Channel 9. Shes retired. And certainly, shes probably the 01:21:00least likely rapper in the world. I mean, she looks, you know, nothing about the part and everything else. She was -- she was all nervous about it. She said, Well, will we offend somebody if we do this? (laughter) I said, Probably, because any time you do anything, you offend somebody. I said -- So, anyway, they talked us into doing this thing, and we went out and tried it out. And, uh...
BERNSTEIN: So, you wrote most of it?
MCGAHA: No, I didnt write it. No, these kids --
BERNSTEIN: Oh, the kids wrote it?
MCGAHA: The kids put it all together, yeah, they put it all together.
BERNSTEIN: Got it, OK.
MCGAHA: Yeah, they put it all together. And they were looking for -- they werelooking for some way to say it. And I said, Well, why dont you say, just scrap the cap. I said, Thats really what you want to do. Because they were trying to figure out what to do about Social Security, about doing all of this stuff. I said, well, just scrap the cap. So, that was my contribution, was kind of somewhat naming it. And, um, a couple of other ad libs I had during the -- the, uh, filming of it. But we worked on that for -- I think we had five 01:22:00or six days of filming, and two days of recording, and then the kids, I dont know, they worked on it for two or three months editing it.
MCGAHA: Putting all of that together, but its quite a process, I was -- Ididnt realize how much work there was going to be, but, you know, we had --
BERNSTEIN: It was quite a successful effort, I have to say.
MCGAHA: -- probably 10 -- probably 10 costume changes, and -- and, uh, you gointo the studio and record your piece of it. And, I mean, it sounds good to me, you know? And he says, No, no, weve got to do it again. So, seeing that thing 20 or 30 times, the entire thing by yourself, headphones, singing into a microphone in a kids basement, I mean, the kids living in his parents basement, one of these techno freaks, you know?
MCGAHA: And --
BERNSTEIN: Guys with the skills.
MCGAHA: And then, uh, Sally goes over and she does it 20 or 30 times, and the01:23:00same deal. And then he takes a piece of this, a piece of that, a piece of this, and then he pieces it all together.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, ha! OK!
MCGAHA: And so now, Ive got one perfect take, now, shes got one perfecttake, and then they splice those together.
BERNSTEIN: And then he fixes it all.
MCGAHA: They splice those two together.
BERNSTEIN: Little bits, yeah.
MCGAHA: And then we had to go out and do five or six days of filming, lipsynching that thing, with all of the background noise, you know, sirens, freeway noise, you know, people yelling, and screaming, and doing all kinds of crazy things. And so, when they put that together on the tape, I said, Wow, did we do that? Because it didnt look anything like I remember doing it! (laughter) But, Ive got to say, Im almost sick of it, because every time you go somewhere, you know, youve got to listen to it again, and again, and again, and again.
MCGAHA: Its like, oh, I cant get that sound out of my mind.
BERNSTEIN: Its just like those rock -- rock bands that have to play the oldfavorite one too many times.
MCGAHA: Yeah, I can -- I can relate to that. Im nowhere near that bad yet,but its -- I can understand how they can feel that way. It was fun, and, uh, 01:24:00the target audience was supposed to be, I think, uh, 25 to 30, or thereabouts, and totally missed the target, because the -- the highest reception is for -- I think it was women 54 to 62, was the --
BERNSTEIN: OK. That must be why I love it, beause Im in there.
MCGAHA: Well! (laughter) OK.
MCGAHA: Well, anyway, that was not the target audience, but thats the targetthey hit, and I guess it doesnt matter as long as you hit a target, I guess.
MCGAHA: I guess it really does, because women in that age bracket are probablydisproportionately affected by, you know, uh, Social Security changes one way or the other. And, uh, so, hopefully, it does some good.
MCGAHA: And the new one theyre trying to do, theyre trying to come up witha new one now, and its -- uh, theyre going to do a country western theme going.
BERNSTEIN: I heard that.01:25:00
MCGAHA: And I dont know what target theyre shooting at, but, uh --
BERNSTEIN: Swing states.
MCGAHA: Who knows.
MCGAHA: I guess you wait and see, but...
MCGAHA: The guys are -- the kids are up there working on that now, theyreputting together storyboards, and writing the songs, and theyve got it -- theyve actually got a professional musician, uh, country western artist of some sort thats helping them out with it.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, thats cool.
MCGAHA: So, I dont know yet if Im going to be doing it, or hes going tobe doing it, or were going to be doing it --
MCGAHA: -- or how its going to come out, but its funny, you talk it out,and youve got all these experts out here, theyre all telling you, oh yeah, you ought to do this, you need to do that. And I said, I just show up, Im not... (laughter) Im not the technician here, Im just -- Im just a pawn in the big game, you know?
BERNSTEIN: Part of -- a cog in the wheel.
MCGAHA: Yeah, that little, uh, scene -- the little scene with the towel.
MCGAHA: That was an ad lib.
BERNSTEIN: Oh yeah?01:26:00
MCGAHA: Yeah, we -- we did that, in the -- and they were -- they were trying tocome up with something, and the kid in the video, that was actually his girlfriend.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, OK.
MCGAHA: And we were at their house, we were actually at their house, wheretheyre staying. And so, they come in there, and they said, Well, you know, you want to get this where its, you know, just really imposing on the kids, you know? And the message is, you dont want these people living with you.
BERNSTEIN: Right, right.
MCGAHA: You know, get their Social Security taken care of so you can live by yourself.
BERNSTEIN: Settle home. (laughter)
MCGAHA: And I said -- well, you know, the grossest thing I can ever remember inmy life was my dad come stumbling out in the dark going to the bathroom, and were standing over there, and I said, you know, that just -- its just not a pretty sight at all. So -- so, we did that. We did that. (laughter) And youre walking out there. And I thought the look on that gals face was precious. She goes -- I just -- (laughter) I remember it was a one-take deal.
BERNSTEIN: That was excellent, thats true.
MCGAHA: We -- we shot that -- we shot that part in one take.
BERNSTEIN: Oh yeah?01:27:00
MCGAHA: Yeah, it really -- we laughed at it. I -- I thought they were going totake it out. Actually, there was, uh, originally, there was -- there was about four and a half minutes long, and they shortened it to three minutes to make it more viewable.
BERNSTEIN: Right, right. Huh.
MCGAHA: But, yeah, there was stuff -- outtakes and that, like everything else,its just hilarious. I hope the next one does as well.
MCGAHA: But --
BERNSTEIN: No, thats a -- thats a really good strategy for communicating,I have to say. Its (crosstalk; inaudible).
MCGAHA: Well, and like I said, the young kids put that together, and there was a-- the kid that did all of the electronic part of that, you know, splicing that all together, living in his parents basement.
BERNSTEIN: But somebody found him, drew him in, right?
MCGAHA: Well, they were all there, and then they had a -- you know, they had twoor three other young kids on there, and man, they were just into it, you know?
MCGAHA: They really did.
BERNSTEIN: Thats terrific.
MCGAHA: And the young kids -- a lot of young kids like it, and they think itsfunny because, you know, heres old people making a fool of themselves.
MCGAHA: But the petition piece that -- you know, signing the petition, I mean,that things got 150,000 hits, and weve got 3,700 signatures. People just 01:28:00look at it for the entertainment --
MCGAHA: -- and they miss. So, I told them, I said, on this next one, we need tosomehow or another, highlight the fact that theres a -- if youre going to do a petition, I dont know if they are or not, but it -- I said if you are, you need to highlight that in some manner --
MCGAHA: -- so people go to that, because, you know, kids, they put this onYoutube, and it flashes around, and they never get to that part with the petition.
BERNSTEIN: So, they dont even know that theyre skipping it. Yeah.
MCGAHA: But, you know, there were people that I talked to here in the audiencethat are -- one guy has taken the video, and made individual discs, and handed them out at his own expense.
MCGAHA: He went out and printed discs.
BERNSTEIN: No kidding.
MCGAHA: Yeah, hes -- said hes put out about 300 or 400 he said. And, uh,but that doesnt get you to the petition.
MCGAHA: And the one the international did, they put some note on there aboutthat, and we did get extra signatures. 01:29:00
BERNSTEIN: You need to go there, yeah.
MCGAHA: So, its --
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, thats a lot.
MCGAHA: You learn something from everything, I guess.
BERNSTEIN: A lot of strategizing.
MCGAHA: So, what did I forget to ask you?
BERNSTEIN: I dont know. (laughter)
MCGAHA: What did I -- We went off on so many tangents, Im not sure we --
BERNSTEIN: I know. Uh, I dont know. I need to, uh -- I need to take your photo.
MCGAHA: Is that done?
BERNSTEIN: Um, State Labor Council, County Labor Council, stories about thosethat we skipped over that are critical?
MCGAHA: Uh, State Labor Council, um, well, state has several districts, and thevice president from each of the districts. And we were in the first district, which, uh, we were one of the biggest unions in -- in the first district. So, 01:30:00basically, get your name on a ballot and get elected, you know? So, its not like a big deal. But, anyway, you still -- you send out a letter, generally. Well send out a letter, generally, well send out a letter, and our opposition, loyal opposition inside the union, um, I sent out -- which I was pretty sure I was authorized to do, on letterhead, because Im representing the organization, Im not getting there, you know, to be vice president for myself --
MCGAHA: -- its for the organization.
MCGAHA: So, we sent out a letter with all of the candidates on there, and signedit on the letterhead, and sent it out to the other affiliates of the labor council to, um, you know, to ask for their support, and ask for their vote. And 01:31:00the loyal opposition filed internal charges on me for using the -- misusing the letterhead.
BERNSTEIN: Oh, dear.
MCGAHA: And I said, youve got to be kidding me. (laughter) So, you know, the-- this is just one of the joys of -- of what you have to put up with, uh, you know, representing people, because everybody has their own idea of -- of things, I guess. But I served, uh -- lets see, how long was I on there? About 10 years or so as the vice president of that, and I was vice president of the King County Labor Council at the same time. And I dont know, just met a lot of people, and I was sort of the interface between our district and the greater labor community out there. Everybody -- I knew most of the labor leaders in the state, or they knew me. And so, you know, if they want to -- anything with the machinists, they always call me, or they would call our political director --
MCGAHA: -- who, you know, basically had some of the same connections, or most --ll of the same connections. So, I kind of was the interface between the other unions, you know? If you had -- somebody had a complaint or something, wed -- wed talk it out, you know? And wed support each other in the various rallies. We had great, great labor community support up there for our strikes, and others. We -- we did the, uh, the musicians union, which is a very, very small union, now. And we had the entire, uh, labor community came out in support of them.
MCGAHA: And there was, like -- they had, like, 300 members, and we ha 3,000people out in the street for them, you know? We had --
BERNSTEIN: Thats an impressive solidarity.
MCGAHA: We had two -- two busloads of --
BERNSTEIN: Show of solidarity.
MCGAHA: -- two busloads of machinists showed up for their picket line, you know,or demonstration out in front of the theater, you know, where they were picketing. And, things like that, and -- and you dont get that just by sitting in your office answering the phone, youve got to be out there amongst 01:33:00the people. And I -- if I ever offer any advice to, you know, young leaders, young labor leaders -- emerging labor leaders, or whatever they call them now, my advice to them is to go out, and try to do as much activity with other unions as you do your own. And because youll get -- youll get payback from that. Youll get them coming out to support you.
MCGAHA: And thats how you build the solidarity is you spend as much time withthose other unions as you do your own. You know, which is hard to do if youre out servicing members all the time. But thats part of organizing is that you -- organizing is just being sociable with people.
BERNSTEIN: Making connections.
MCGAHA: Yeah, its just being upfront and honest with them, and friendly withthem, and talking to them. You know, you dont do that by cutting these backroom deals, and that sort of thing.
MCGAHA: That doesnt get you anything, you know? I see some of these unions,you know, they do that top-down organizing, where they go and they cut a deal with the company, and come back, go out and get the cards signed. Youve got dues payers, you dont have members. (laughter)
BERNSTEIN: Yeah, thats the difference.
BERNSTEIN: Well, I thank you very much for doing this.
MCGAHA: Well, I hope thats helpful, if not --
BERNSTEIN: I think it is excellent.
MCGAHA: -- well, get somebody else