Edgar West and Pam West oral history interview, 2005-09-14

SLAWSKY: -- today, for the Voices of Labor oral history project, the Southern Labor Archives, Special Collections Department, Georgia State University library. I'm Norman Slawsky and here with Edgar West. It's September 14, 2005. Edgar, can you identify yourself - we're conducting this interview with the Ironworkers Local 709 office in Savannah, in Pooler, Georgia, and interviewing Edgar West, who now lives in Hardeeville, South Carolina, who retired as business manager, Ironworkers Local 709 in March, 2005. Edgar, could you describe your background and how you got involved in the ironworkers, and where you went to school and whatever?

WEST: Ah, yes. After high school, I joined the Army. I was in the Army three years, I came out and went to work for Steel Erectors, a fabrication company here in Savannah. And they also had outside crew that done the steel erection. 00:01:00And after watching them work outside I decided that's what I wanted to be. And I talked to Pete Clifton, who was the owner of Steel Erectors, and through him I was able to get an apprentice program in a Local 709 in November 1966. And, I started the apprentice program at that time.

SLAWSKY: And you're from Savannah originally?

WEST: I was born and raised in Savannah.

SLAWSKY: And your parents are from this – from Savannah?

WEST: Both my parents.

SLAWSKY: Grandparents?

WEST: Yeah, both, both my grandparents.

SLAWSKY: And what about - did you have any, any brothers in the ironworkers?

WEST: No.

SLAWSKY: Or any relatives?

WEST: No, having had a lot of friends that was in `em, but didn't have any relatives.

SLAWSKY: Okay. So the main experience that drew you to the ironworkers was just a job you're working.

WEST: Right. That really it.

SLAWSKY: Okay. And did you - where did you graduate from high school?

WEST: Grove High School.

SLAWSKY: Where's that?

WEST: Right in Garden City. The suburbs of Savannah.

SLAWSKY: Okay. And do you remember when you graduated?

WEST: It's 1960.

SLAWSKY: And when did you go in the Army?

WEST: In 1960.

SLAWSKY: Oh, you did? Okay.

WEST: Time I got out of school, I went in when I was 17 years old.

SLAWSKY: Where did you serve in the Army?

WEST: I was in - I went to train here in the United States, and then I served time in Thule, Greenland.

SLAWSKY: Oh, in Greenland?

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Oh, you did?

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: What kind of work did you do there?

WEST: Pretty much. Without that, a Nike Hercules missile site.

SLAWSKY: Okay. So were you above ground or underground at that time?

WEST: No, it was above ground. All the missile sites were below ground, but the barracks and all of them were above ground.

SLAWSKY: All right, so you've been living some cold weather for a long time.

WEST: Absolutely. (laughing)

SLAWSKY: So after that you returned to Savannah.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: I bet you were grateful for the warm weather.

WEST: Absolutely.

SLAWSKY: When you - you mentioned that you worked - that you were an apprentice initially. Can you describe what the apprentice program was like and what kind 00:03:00of work you did during that period?

WEST: Right. It was a lot different than it is today. It was very, very hard work. You had one apprentice to probably three or four gangs back there. And you basically kept everybody supplied with the tools and material they needed to keep the job going, and doing anything the journeyman ironworker wanted you to do. You worked for each and every one of the journeymens on the job and they kept you busy back there.

SLAWSKY: So you were more like a helper?

WEST: That was it.

SLAWSKY: Now did you learn - what kind of skills did you learn when you were working on there?

WEST: Oh yeah, well they worked us - as we progressed, you know, got more experienced and all, they would assign us more responsible duties, you know. And by the time we graduated we were certified well and qualified to do rigging of just about anything that any journeyman could do.

SLAWSKY: Did you have any classroom work?

WEST: Oh yeah. We had school we went to, twice a week, for the three years. Plus you had to have fifteen hundred hours of OJT.

SLAWSKY: Oh, all right. And when were you indentured - when did you become a journeyman?

WEST: It was in sixty-nine.

SLAWSKY: Okay. So at that point you became a member of Iron - of Local 709?

WEST: Right, right. When I was a member, and - my initiation date was November '66, when I went in the apprentice program.

SLAWSKY: So in this local you can become a member in the apprentice program?

WEST: Right, you are a member when you come into the apprentice program.

SLAWSKY: And are you still in touch with any of the apprentices in your class?

WEST: Oh, absolutely. I see `em all the time, several of them. Yeah, yeah.

SLAWSKY: And after you became a journeyman did your work change?

WEST: Oh, right. Well, at the time, after I became a journeyman, work got real bad here and -

SLAWSKY: That was in the early seventies.

WEST: In the late sixties.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: And I spent several years just running all over the country, you know. So 00:05:00it had changed everything. You know, with every location it changed.

SLAWSKY: Tell me about some of your experiences, what people call booming - as a boomer.

WEST: Well, that works. I had a job in nineteen... sixty-eight. Where they worked here. And I'll talk about six people working the whole jurisdiction. And I was working on the Katy Remore Center in Washington DC when Martin Luther King got killed. And they burnt the city. And all, that was quite an experience. And then after that I came back to the—to Baxley, Georgia, and we started up Plant Hatch. And then I left there and went on to the New Orleans, on the Super Dome. And I came back, and work got slow. I went to New York, I worked down in Manhattan on the big telephone company building there, with the American bridge on the corner of Church and Wortham, Manhattan. Then left there and went to the 00:06:00World Trade Center, with Conch Construction.

SLAWSKY: How long did you work on the World Trade Center?

WEST: `bout eleven month.

SLAWSKY: And did you work on the towers?

WEST: Oh yeah. That's what I was working on.

SLAWSKY: What kind of work did - were you doing?

WEST: I was working on the derrick. Connecting on the derrick.

SLAWSKY: And when you say connecting, what do you mean?

WEST: Connecting the steel.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: You know, they'd bring it up from the street.

SLAWSKY: So you're one of the crazy ironworkers who were climbing the steel pretty high up.

WEST: That's all I did until I got too old to do it.

SLAWSKY: So in other words, you were - what does a connector do?

WEST: A connector just puts iron in place. He's the one that hangs the iron.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: He's the one, and it looks real hard but actually if you know what you're doing it's probably the easiest job on the - on the...

SLAWSKY: In other words, the steel comes off the crane, and you have to guide it in place?

WEST: Right. It comes from the street.

SLAWSKY: Oh...

WEST: In the case of the trade tower, you know, you had a long way to the street, you know, and it goes to the street. They'd shoe string several pieces and then swing it up to you and you put it in place.

SLAWSKY: And then - is there someone else who bolt, bolts it in place?

WEST: Yeah, they have a crew that come behind you and bolt it in place. You put 00:07:00just enough bolts in it to lift - you know, to make it safe -

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: - And then you move on to the next piece of iron when it come behind you bolt it-

SLAWSKY: Now, were you tied off? In other words, what kind of safety -

WEST: Didn't tie off back then.

SLAWSKY: You didn't tie off at all?

WEST: No.

SLAWSKY: So you're just climbing steel with nothing there?

WEST: That's it, that's it. We didn't have time to tie off back then.

SLAWSKY: No kidding.

WEST: Right, no, no. We never tied off. We didn't even have - any means to tie off back then.

SLAWSKY: Now that's changed since then, hasn't it?

WEST: Oh yeah. Absolutely, now it's changed. And it's good that it has. But back then they didn't think that much about the workers anyway.

SLAWSKY: Would anybody get hurt or killed on that job?

WEST: Oh, I've been on several jobs where they got killed. One of my worst memories, I guess, was in Milledgeville, in sixty-nine, I think it was, we lost a derrick there worker for Ingalls, and we lost a derrick man (coughing) Two hundred and seventy-eight ton girder on it. And I lost one of my best buddies, in fact. He died in my arms.

SLAWSKY: What about on the World Trade Center? Did anyone get killed?

WEST: Oh, several of `em got mangled, up. But I weren't a witness to it.

SLAWSKY: Now the - so you were working pretty high up.

WEST: Oh yeah. But - now, they had safety nets up there. They... they, it was an, and they'd plank every other floor.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: So it weren't near as bad as it looked, you know, if you were standing on the ground see somebody up there.

SLAWSKY: Wasn't it pretty windy up there?

WEST: Oh yeah, absolutely. But the windiest job I ever worked on, I worked on the John Hancock building in Chicago. But I didn't stay there long with that one. It was... That was a…

SLAWSKY: Now did you choose the jobs you worked on when you traveled?

WEST: Oh yeah. Yeah.

SLAWSKY: So you liked - liked the high-rise jobs.

WEST: Well, I liked - moving where the money was at, you know.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: Those jobs are, the bigger jobs is where we worked overtime, most of the time.

SLAWSKY: Okay. So longer hours?

WEST: Longer hours, and we went where the money was.

SLAWSKY: And did you - did you travel with other people?

WEST: Occasionally we would. You know, shared expenses, traveling expenses, and rooms and stuff.

SLAWSKY: So for example when you worked on the World Trade Center in New York City for about eleven months, did you have an apartment, or where did you live?

WEST: Yeah, we lived across the street in Jersey.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: Jersey City. And we ride, ride the tube back and forth in Manhattan. Cost you a quarter a day to ride the tube back home.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: And I bunked up with a guy, Al Kilgore, doing that job. He was out of Atlanta. He and I connected together.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: And when did you - how did you know the job was over? In other words, what happened? You finished putting up all the steel?

WEST: No. No, no, the work picked up back home and we come home, you know.

SLAWSKY: Okay, okay. So your preference was to work in Savannah.

WEST: Oh, absolutely. But you couldn't afford to just sit around here, and if you had to be out of town you got to get where the money was at. You know. You couldn't be home at night, you might as well be where you can make some money.

SLAWSKY: The - who was the business manager during that time?

WEST: Whitey Cane was the business agent back then.

SLAWSKY: I'm sorry.

WEST: Whitey Cane.

SLAWSKY: Whitey King, okay. And who was the business manager after him?

WEST: David Edenfield.

SLAWSKY: And are you related to David Edenfield.

WEST: He's my father in law. I'm - he's my father in law, yeah.

SLAWSKY: He's Pam's father?

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: He's deceased now.

SLAWSKY: Okay. And that leads me to my next question, how'd you get involved in the union? In other words, how did - aside from working as a union ironworker. First of all, did the - was it attractive to you to work as a union ironworker, or just an ironworker? Did you care about the union?

WEST: Oh no, I believed in the union. I mean, I saw what a union could do. And they cared about the workers and they cared about their safety. Their, their, their futures. You know, retirement, healthcare. The family. And that made me choose to decide to be a union member.

SLAWSKY: So in other words, that was important to you in addition to being an ironworker.

WEST: Absolutely. Right.

SLAWSKY: Did the - now, when did you get involved in union affairs and politics and things like that?

WEST: Over the years. After - I'd say in the late seventies or early eighties, I was mostly in the supervisory positions on the jobs and all.

SLAWSKY: What kind of jobs did you have?

WEST: And I - anything from foremans right on up to superintendents.

SLAWSKY: And what did you do as a foreman?

WEST: As a foreman you just have the crew, you know. And then you just did regular the work.

SLAWSKY: And what about superintendent?

WEST: Superintendent, you have a lot of jobs. You schedule and co-ordination. You know, the whole deal -

SLAWSKY: You were responsible for the project? For the erection?

WEST: Right, right.

SLAWSKY: For example, when you worked on the World Trade Center, were you a foreman or supervisor?

WEST: No, no. I was connector on that. The super, the last superintendent job. I was superintendent for eight years at Plant Vogtle.

SLAWSKY: Okay. The nuclear power plant.

WEST: Right. And I had about sixty ironworkers that worked for me.

SLAWSKY: Okay. And who'd you work for?

WEST: I worked for Ingalls. Ingalls Ironwork.

SLAWSKY: Okay. And that must - that must have been a lot of hours.

WEST: Oh yeah. A lot of hours. We did, we put in a lot of hours. Like I said, I 00:12:00was eight a year.

SLAWSKY: You been working a seven twelves on that job?

WEST: Yeah, we - we've had overtime. We've worked a lot of overtime. I was over all the in-triple-S, setting all the reactors -

SLAWSKY: - Okay -

WEST: - And the steam generators. And, and, that's where the, all the time went.

SLAWSKY: And you had safety, and probably redundancies, and making -

WEST: - Right -

SLAWSKY: - Sure it's checked. A lot of people checking after you.

WEST: That's right. Yeah, yeah. And we put in some real long hours. Once you hooked on reactors, a steam generator, you couldn't cut `em loose until they were in place and secure. And sometimes that'd take a week for, you know, this reactor.

SLAWSKY: And that nuclear facility, that was the last facility licensed in this country. Wasn't it?

WEST: Right, right.

SLAWSKY: And Georgia Power's now thinking about building another facility.

WEST: At the same site.

SLAWSKY: Interesting. Are you going to - leave retirement, go back to work?

WEST: No, no. (laughing.)

SLAWSKY: The - so you worked for Bennett. Was that the last project that you worked on?

WEST: That was the last job I worked in the field, before I took this job.

SLAWSKY: So how did you - you mentioned you got married to Pam in 1980.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: And was she working for the union at that time?

WEST: No, no. She hadn't worked for the union. And - but at that time she wasn't working -

SLAWSKY: - Okay. -

WEST: - for the union.

SLAWSKY: And did she travel with you when you -

WEST: - Oh yeah.

SLAWSKY: - First got married.

WEST: Yeah. Yeah, she went a, we spent a lot of time out in the Midwest. And she enjoyed it. Then we came back and went to Plant Vogtle, and she was a document control supervisor there for -

SLAWSKY: Oh really?

WEST: - over eight years for Pullman Power.

SLAWSKY: And - let's see, were you living in Hardeeville at that time?

WEST: No, we built a house right close to the plant.

SLAWSKY: Oh, you did?

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: So you were living in Waynesboro?

WEST: Yeah. Yeah. We got a house there.

SLAWSKY: And you sold it when you were finished?

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: So you lived pretty close there.

WEST: Oh, I lived about three miles from the plant.

SLAWSKY: Oh, that's good. So you could work long hours and come home, and -

WEST: Right, right. I'd get to ride back and forth, you know, if there was a problem or something, you know, it was convenient.

SLAWSKY: The - did you like that kind of work?

WEST: Oh yeah. Loved it. Yeah. I loved it.

SLAWSKY: What did you like about it?

WEST: Well, I just liked the - I like to work all day, and turn around when I go through the gate, look back and see what we done.

SLAWSKY: - Okay -

WEST: - you know, what I mean, as a feeling of accomplishment. You can see what you did.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: And I always enjoyed it.

SLAWSKY: Did you feel the same way about the other structural steel projects and the high-rise buildings you worked on?

WEST: Always did. Very proud of them. Got pictures and stuff that I'll always cherish.

SLAWSKY: How did you feel about when the World Trade Center was demolished?

WEST: Eh... that hit me pretty hard. Now, my son's come along behind me, and he wants to be a part of building the new one back. Because I worked on the original, so I guess he'll be headed up that way.

SLAWSKY: Yeah, we were in New York City a couple of weeks ago, and we saw - my sister lives in Greenwich Village. And there's a building actually going up just adjacent to the World Trade Center site now.

WEST: Oh, right. I was there - about a year ago, but they hadn't started anything other than the infrastructure when I went along.

SLAWSKY: So after you finished the Plant Vogtle project, how did you - describe to me more your involvement with the union and how you got involved...

WEST: Well, at the time I was superintendent. And the president of the local was PH Ward. And my father in-law, the business manager, was the business manager at the time, and he was in poor health. And he had to retire. And the president of the local appointed me as an assistant prior to him retiring. And I finished 00:16:00his, uh, term out. When he retired. And that was in 1984. And -

SLAWSKY: And tell me - what kind of duties does a business manager of Local 709 have?

WEST: He handles everything. The negotiations, grievances, uh, pensions, annuity, health and welfare. Any problems that the membership comes with, and has, is his job to handle.

SLAWSKY: What about jobs, hiring - you run a hiring hall?

WEST: Yeah. We run the hiring hall. We handle all the referrals. Organizing. The list just goes on and on.

SLAWSKY: You handle relations with employers.

WEST: Yeah. Absolutely.

SLAWSKY: And all those individual jobs... is a big job.

WEST: Absolutely. That's right. Regardless of how small the problem is, when you look at it, if your memory is - if you see the problem it's big. It's the 00:17:00biggest thing going. And it keeps you busy.

SLAWSKY: The, uh - so from 1984, until you retired in 2005, you served as the business manager of Local, Local 709?

WEST: That's right.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: So for about twenty-one years.

WEST: Well, eighteen years is all, anything new. Sixteen - sixty-one - No, it was eighty-eight. It was eighty-eight.

SLAWSKY: Oh, eighty-eight - you're being -

WEST: I'm sorry, I said eighty-four, it was eighty-eight.

SLAWSKY: Okay. Eighty-eight, you became business manager.

WEST: Yeah. Yeah.

SLAWSKY: And you were re-elected many times?

WEST: That's right. Without opposition. One time I had opposition, but other than that I didn't have any.

SLAWSKY: And every three years you were re-elected.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Um. The [Silence] What - I've obviously, I personally have known you for many years. And, uh, I've seen you operate in different arenas. And your passion and interest in what you do and how important you think it is, and how 00:18:00you believe very strongly that your members' interest and union's interest is very very important, whether it's dealing with employers or other local unions, or the health plan or the health plan or the pension plan or whatever comes up. What do you see as some of your important accomplishments? I know it's hard to think about, just kind of pick them out.

WEST: I don't know very well... there's several things I'm proud of. I guess one of the proudest things is that, you know, we had been involved with the constructions in Savannah River Site back in the 1950s. But we'd never had an agreement with `em. We worked, worked under a memorandum of understanding until 1989. We were able to negotiate project labor agreement. And it was a pretty 00:19:00hard thing to do. In fact, we were very lucky at the time, we had administration that, that believed in the working people of this country. And without the help we had in Washington we couldn't have pulled it off. And I'm real proud of that.

SLAWSKY: Which - what kind of political assistance did you?

WEST: We, uh, we had, uh - in fact, I got to know the Secretary of Energy very well. In fact, she sent me a letter congratulating me. Tommy Yarbrough and I negotiated project labor agreement for Allcraft.

SLAWSKY: Tommy with IBEW 1579?

WEST: We negotiated the project labor agreement for everybody. And I've got a letter that I'm very proud of from the Secretary of Energy.

SLAWSKY: That, that was Richardson? Hazel Richardson?

WEST: Hazel O'Leary.

SLAWSKY: Hazel O'Leary.

WEST: To congratulate me on the -

SLAWSKY: - Now, she was the -

WEST: - On the project agreement.

SLAWSKY: - the, she was, under Clinton.

WEST: Yep. Yeah, under Clinton. And without her help, and some, you know, other help up there, we'd have never been able to do it. And I think that was a real accomplishment. And you know, with the help of our professionals and our plan and all, we've got the - uh, probably the best pension plan in the country. And I like to feel like I... played a small part in that. I'm proud of that. And -

SLAWSKY: Let's go back to the - we're going to have more time to discuss other things, but let's go back to that agreement with Savannah River Site, and it raises another issue. You've always been very much involved in politics.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Originally. Why were you in politics, and how has it affected - why do you get involve and how does it affect the union and -

WEST: Well, we have to get involved in politics, for the benefit of our workers. I mean, you know, our elected officials - we have to elect people that care 00:21:00about the working people. And if we're not involved, they don't have a voice.

SLAWSKY: Okay. Just keep on talking.

WEST: And, uh, that's why I try to stay involved. And we support the people who support the working people, whether they're union or non-union, and politicians that care about the working people of this country. And we are the voice of our membership. And we have to be active in that.

SLAWSKY: The, and - in fact I've seen myself how you've, what form has that taken with uh, with political support?

WEST: What form I don't know -

SLAWSKY: In other words, contributions, being active in campaigns?

WEST: Oh yeah, yeah, abs - absolutely. Get out the vote, contributions. Whatever it takes to get the people elected that uh, that support the working people of this country.

SLAWSKY: And, uh, you've been involved at the local level.

WEST: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. We were able to - that's another accomplishment that I'm proud of. We was able to get a prevailing wage card for all city and county workers here in Savannah.

SLAWSKY: What does that mean?

WEST: That means that, that contractors can't come in and undermine your local contractors and your local workers by, by bidding and paying substandard wages and no benefits.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: If they come in, they have to pay the established prevailing wage, which is our wage and our benefit.

SLAWSKY: This is for contracted work.

WEST: That right. For all city and county work.

SLAWSKY: Okay. The, uh, similar to a Federal law which is called the Davis-Bacon Act of -

WEST: - Right.

SLAWSKY: - Or the Service Contract Act.

WEST: Right. They're exactly the same, yeah.

SLAWSKY: In fact, the as far -

WEST: Fact the wages, the prevailing wage here is the Davis-Bacon Wage. Okay, and they pay that.

SLAWSKY: Umm. Okay, let's go back to the Savannah-River Site, because I think that, that's a pretty big deal.

WEST: That was a big deal.

SLAWSKY: How many, uh, how many employees did that cover, the project labor agreement?

WEST: Uh, probably... (pause) Three fifty to five hundred. You know, it fluctuates.

SLAWSKY: Ironworkers?

WEST: No, no, no. There's all crafts in the project labor agreement -

SLAWSKY: - Okay, okay, okay -

WEST: - Was all crafts.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: Right now, like I said, there's up and down and it's slow over there right now. We probably have sixty, sixty-five workers over there right now.

SLAWSKY: Ironworkers.

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: Ironworkers.

SLAWSKY: And then the electricians, pipefitters...

WEST: All other crafts. (pause) There's probably, and it, and it goes up of seven, eight hundred, you know.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: And it fluctuates.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: But they're all working under a project labor agreement.

SLAWSKY: Now, wasn't it - could you describe what a project work, what is a PLA or a project labor agreement?

WEST: Basically it's an agreement between the management and the labor. And, uh, it addresses all aspects of the project. And, uh, we've had people look at this 00:24:00project agreement, which turns out management included, and it's a very well written agreement, it's fair to both the management people and to the worker. And in fact I understand that some other peoples took that project agreement and tried to implement it in other places. It's a very good working agreement and we don't have any problems with it.

SLAWSKY: Didn't you have some outside assistance in, in drafting it and putting it together?

WEST: Well, yeah. When we tried - the, some, the national building trades tried to get involved with it, to begin with, and we turned some attorneys and stuff on it, uh, but, uh, basically it was drafted, you know, right, right there in Augusta with Tommy and them....

SLAWSKY: Did, did you have any outside mediator or arbitrator involved?

WEST: We've had some problems where we had, after the project agreement, where we had some problems. Uh -

SLAWSKY: Was W.J. Usery involved at all?

WEST: Yeah. Yeah. He was a terrific - that was on a violation of the agreement.

SLAWSKY: Okay, well, tell me about that.

WEST: I can't remember the facts of it right off hand (inaudible).

SLAWSKY: But was he a mediator?

WEST: He was a mediator.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: And, uh, a very, very good mediator. And he came in when we filed a federal lawsuit because they were violating our agreement. And, uh, eventually we agreed to get a mediation. And, uh -

SLAWSKY: Was Bechtel the defendant in the?

WEST: Right. Bechtel was defendant. But DOE was heavily involved, they had attorneys and all. And, uh, they ruled in our favor. You know, we were right. And Mr. Usery was a big help in that. He was fair. And you know, we prevailed.

SLAWSKY: The, uh - that PLA, is still in place?

WEST: Still in place, right.

SLAWSKY: The, uh - now, there was another big project labor agreement over at the Plant Vogtle.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: With Georgia Power.

WEST: Yeah. And -

SLAWSKY: Now, you were not, you worked under that -

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: But you're not involved in, in negotiating that.

WEST: No. No, we didn't have anything. It was in place at the time and it's still in place.

SLAWSKY: Okay. In other words, that PLA has actually been in place, for... what -

WEST: - Oh, my yeah -

SLAWSKY: - For twenty-five, thirty years.

WEST: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we used to have a lot of people that work under that agreement.

SLAWSKY: The, uh - and a PLA is an agreement that covers all crafts, all the construction crafts.

WEST: Right. That's signatory to it, have... you know, they have an option where they want to sign it or not, because all them signatories, Plant Vogtel and plan I had.

SLAWSKY: And it refers back to each local's agreement.

WEST: Right. But in some cases -

SLAWSKY: - Okay. -

WEST: - It don't matter. Now, now the Savannah River PLA don't, it's a stand-alone agreement, it don't, it don't -

SLAWSKY: - Okay -

WEST: - go back to your local agreement.

SLAWSKY: Okay. You mentioned as well that you have been involved in the - well, 00:27:00let me just say. What are the reasons why in your mind someone would want to be a union ironworker than - just instead of just being an ironworker?

WEST: Well, for respect that you get by being a union ironworker. We, uh, our contractors expect our people to go out and get `em eight hours of work for eight hours of pay. We believe in that. And we push that. In return our contractors respect our workers by giving them a living wage, benefits, pension where they can retire with dignity, and safe working place. And it's just, uh, it's the only way to get it, in my opinion.

SLAWSKY: Now, let's go over each one of those. You have - you say, mention a, there's a pension. What is the pension fund for Local 709?

WEST: What is it, what do you mean?

SLAWSKY: What is it called?

WEST: It's the Southeastern Iron Workers' Pension Plan.

SLAWSKY: Oh, there's Southern Iron Workers.

WEST: Yeah, Southern Iron Workers.

SLAWSKY: And, uh, you - you've been a trustee on that plan.

WEST: For eighteen years, yeah.

SLAWSKY: And you mentioned that you thought it had some of the best benefits of any pension fund which you're aware of.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Like, you're now drawing a pension from that -

WEST: Right, absolutely.

SLAWSKY: - Pension fund. And the, uh, the, and in order to participate in that pension fund and get your pension, you have to work - you have to have hours contributed on your behalf by employers.

WEST: By contributing employer, right.

SLAWSKY: The, uh, and - give me some examples about how much are the benefits that someone could draw from the plan.

WEST: The reason I say our plan is the best, I go to a lot of meetings with, with the International Foundation of (inaudible) I'm aware of the benefits and contributions paid in and paid out by the, uh, other unions in our country. Our plan's contributions aren't that much. We pay a dollar eighty cent an hour, into 00:29:00our plan. Our people earn credits, about a hundred and thirty, a hundred and thirty-five dollars a year per credit. And, uh, it just allows our people to really, uh, and not only that, our people can, uh, retire at fifty years old with thirty credits, with a full, unreduced pension.

SLAWSKY: So in that - thirty now.

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Do you say a hundred and thirty-five a year, that's a hundred and thirty-five -

WEST: That's based on two thousand hours a year.

SLAWSKY: Okay, but that's a hundred and thirty-five dollars a month in benefits.

WEST: Right. Hundred and thirty-five dollars a month in benefits for every year of working.

SLAWSKY: So for example, if you have thirty years at age fifty, with for you now -

WEST: - Right -

SLAWSKY: - You can get thirty times a hundred and thirty-five.

WEST: That's it. Assume a hundred and fifty a year, though.

SLAWSKY: Okay. If you - aren't that many people have done that.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: But in the future, that may be more possible.

WEST: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

SLAWSKY: And then - isn't there a rule, if you have twenty-five years or fifty-five years you can retirement.

WEST: Twenty-five years and fifty-five, uh. Twenty-five credits, fifty-five years old, you can go out unreduced.

SLAWSKY: And, uh, why is that important in this industry?

WEST: It's important because after - you know, ironwork's hard. It's hard. It's not - it's a lot safer than it was years ago, but it's still hard. And by the time an, a man puts in thirty years ironworking, he's ready to retire. And he can go out and be able to live a decent life without having to depend on social programs that take care of him. And, uh, and enjoy his remaining years.

SLAWSKY: And the most of your members retire at the earliest date they can, or they keep on working?

WEST: Well, no. No. It depends on what kind of physical shape they in. They, uh, we do have some that, you know, have back problems, leg problems or whatever, and they go ahead at the time they hit their thirty and fifty, they get out. But 00:31:00in a lot of cases they don't.

SLAWSKY: Um. What about members, also an annuity plan. What is that?

WEST: Annuity plan is just a negotiated contribution from the contractors. They go those into an individual account, for each member. And, uh, they, uh, they can, uh, out of retirement they'll have that cash lump sum in favor.

SLAWSKY: So it's, it's an addition to pension.

WEST: It's an addition to the pension.

SLAWSKY: So it's a lump sum payment to go along with the monthly benefit.

WEST: That's it exactly. It's a tax-deferred contribution, and it, and it gives them the benefit of investing that money, you know, over the years. And then, uh, drawing it out when they retire and paying taxes at the time.

SLAWSKY: The, uh, now there's also a health plan -

WEST: - Right -

SLAWSKY: Southeast Iron Workers Health Care Plan. You've been on the board of 00:32:00trustees of that plan for eighteen years.

WEST: That's it exactly.

SLAWSKY: - You've had plenty of fun on that board, haven't you?

WEST: (chuckling) Oh, boy. I imagine to even think about how the health and welfare boys had a lot of fun, but we've had a - it's been a terrific struggle.

SLAWSKY: I have to say, is, uh, say this at well that either my firm or I have served as attorney -

WEST: - Right -

SLAWSKY: - For both the pension plan, the annuity plan and the health plan, so I've been witness to many of these things, but you kind of chuckle with the health plan. Why do you do that?

WEST: It's just been a struggle. What it, and I'm sure all plans are like that, but it's a - it's just a rough job being a trustee on a health care plan.

SLAWSKY: Now that plan is called the Southeastern Ironworkers' Health Care Plan -

WEST: - Right -

SLAWSKY: - And there are eight local unions in it.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Which means there are sixteen trustees.

WEST: And each one of `em has their own agenda. (laughing.)

SLAWSKY: And I must say for the purpose of this interview, that these are what are called Taft-Hartley plans, and pursuant to the Taft-Hartley Act, labor-management relation - LMRDA, they have - these plans have to be governed 00:33:00by a board of trustees with an equal number of labor and management members.

WEST: Right. Right.

SLAWSKY: So they're sitting alongside the business managers are contractors, employers -

WEST: - That's true -

SLAWSKY: - From each area. That's why there are sixteen with eight local unions.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: And for example, the pension fund has management trustees, local labor trustees, et cetera.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: And these plans are responsible for millions of dollars.

WEST: Absolutely.

SLAWSKY: Pension fund, the annuity fund, and the health - health-care plan. Um. Health care plan has gone through some rough times, hasn't it?

WEST: I think all over the country they've had that, uh. I don't see how they're that much different, you know, other than a few things that we'd run into, but, uh, it just a, health care's just a problem throughout the country.

SLAWSKY: But there also has been some internal political issues?

WEST: Oh, hey. You got that any time you got a, ironworkers all of them have a 00:34:00whole, very headstrong and, and, uh, believe in what they're doing, and right or wrong they're - you're going to have a battle, you know. But, uh.

SLAWSKY: So there have been some battles on that.

WEST: Absolutely. (laughing.) Absolutely.

SLAWSKY: And, uh, do you think that they're doing worthwhile and worth being involved in and the plan is better off for it?

WEST: Oh yeah. I'm confident that we are. And we've got a - we've got a good plan. But, uh, we'll always have ups and down with it. You know, you got so many people involved. Without `em we couldn't have survived, so….

SLAWSKY: The, uh, [Silence], just let me stop here. [Silence]. And in the room now is also Pam West, Edgar's wife. And Pam, could you introduce yourself and say what your connection with Local 709?

PAM WEST: I'm a secretary here for fifteen years.

SLAWSKY: Okay, Pam is modest. (laughing)

PAM WEST: My husband's the business manager for eighteen years. My father was business manager for eighteen years prior to that.

SLAWSKY: And so you have, uh, and your - so how long have you, and your - how long have your family members been associated with Local 709?

PAM WEST: What's that thirty-six years?

SLAWSKY: Thirty-six years.

PAM WEST: Well, longer than that. I mean, my father was a member since `52, I think. 1952.

SLAWSKY: And, and are you retired now?

PAM WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Yeah, I'm asking, in other words, we're just talking to the tape recorder. When did you retire?

PAM WEST: The end of June of 2005.

SLAWSKY: Okay. So both you and Edgar are retired now.

PAM WEST: Yes.

SLAWSKY: And smiling.

PAM WEST: (laughing)

SLAWSKY: And was it important for you to work for the union? For 709?

PAM WEST: Yes. It was - yeah.

SLAWSKY: Why?

PAM WEST: Well, all my brothers are ironworkers, my son's an ironworker, my mother worked here for twenty-five years and retired. My father retired here. My husband retired here. (laughing.)

SLAWSKY: And then you retired here.

PAM WEST: And I'm retired here. So it's just - it's been here ever since I was born.

SLAWSKY: And what does it - what does the union mean to you?

PAM WEST: Well, it's healthcare. Pensions. Uh, a way of life.

SLAWSKY: And what do you mean about a way of life?

PAM WEST: Well, a better way of life, with the benefits that the construction workers have. Job protection. Security.

SLAWSKY: The, um. What do you remember about your, uh, when you were young, younger, with your dad working as business manager?

PAM WEST: I remember him coming home with the white powder all over him as a little child -

SLAWSKY: - Okay -

PAM WEST: - And then I remember during teenager years being gone a lot.

SLAWSKY: Yeah. And when you say white powder, was that when he was working?

PAM WEST: Yeah, all the jobs, on the every day jobs.

SLAWSKY: And where - where'd he work?

PAM WEST: And out of town a lot.

SLAWSKY: Where'd he work like?

PAM WEST: Uh, where was the white powder? The Kemira?

WEST: Kemira.

SLAWSKY: Oh, the Kemira. Okay.

PAM WEST: And I seen pictures of me in one arm and Bub in one arm as a baby, and him with the white powder, and I was just fascinated that he -

SLAWSKY: What kind of plant was that?

PAM WEST: Chemical plant.

WEST: Yeah, pigment plant.

PAM WEST: Which is now - it was Kemira, and now it's Kerr-McGee.

WEST: It used to be, uh, Cyanamid.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

PAM WEST: Yeah, American Cyanamid.

SLAWSKY: Yeah. The, uh, and - did you work for the union when David was the business manager?

PAM WEST: Yeah, for two years.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

PAM WEST: It was just hard, father and daughter working together, so it didn't last very long (laughing.)

SLAWSKY: Now, Kathy, your sister, is now working for the Local 709?

PAM WEST: Right. And she was here with my father in the office for thirteen years.

SLAWSKY: Okay, prior to Edgar becoming business manager.

PAM WEST: Right, right. She was married ten years and they decided then to have a family after ten years, so they left. And by that time Edgar had came into office. And when she left, he felt comfortable having me here.

SLAWSKY: Okay. Um, and you saying your brother, Bubba Edenfield is now business manager.

PAM WEST: Uh-huh. Which he's been President for a lot of years. He's held office here for about twenty years, so he came in to Edgar's leaving.

SLAWSKY: Okay. Um. Edgar, did you have any sort of role model in your career? I mean anybody you looked up to as your mentor?

WEST: Not really that I can think of. Uh, I just led the trade. And that's the reason I stuck with it. Um, it was a macho type deal when I was coming up when I was a young man. And I just learned to love it. And hell, that's all I ever done.

SLAWSKY: Now we had a meeting today. One of the reason we took a break is that 00:39:00we had a meeting with some folks from Bechtel Savannah River about some issues on, um, benefits for fourteen employees who worked at Savannah River for Bechtel. And, uh, I saw in that meeting how much you cared about each individual, uh, employee, and the benefits for those employees. And make sure they're not harmed. And if it takes, uh, going to court to enforce those rights, you will do - you feel very strongly about that. Is that pretty typical of the way you think about things?

WEST: Absolutely. And I feel like that's our responsibility in here to defend the rights of each and every member, regardless of how many. If they're right.

SLAWSKY: Let me ask each of you this question. Um, you're both from Savannah, the Savannah area, where unions aren't that popular, because you don't - I mean, Edgar mentioned how, uh, you worked around the country in New York and Chicago and the Midwest. Different places and, uh, where unions, locals may be bigger, 00:40:00more crafts are union, the jobs more union. Um. How would you contrast being an Iron Worker union member in Savannah as opposed to New York or Chicago or Kansas City or somewhere like that?

WEST: It's a lot of difference.

SLAWSKY: Well, tell me how it's different.

WEST: Working in a right to work state, it's a lot of difference. We have, um, uh, our contract is they're paying fair wages, benefits. And, um, promote safe workplaces and all have to compete against contractors pay substandard wages, no benefits. And, uh, in return for all contractors to be competitive, we have to make sacrifices - union members.

SLAWSKY: So it's -

WEST: - So we don't have to work in conditions in northern states, and have, (coughing), and uh, we have to work a lot harder.

SLAWSKY: What does it mean that - that you're right to work? Right to work state?

WEST: Uh... it's a, it's the right to work law. The right to work without representation.

SLAWSKY: In other words you don't have to be a union member.

WEST: You don't have to be union members, no. And, uh, and I've got contractors, I've had contractors have to compete against these contracts. And it puts us at a disadvantage and like I said, we just have to make sacrifices on my own in order to make our contractors competitive.

SLAWSKY: What does - what does that mean?

WEST: That means we have, uh, we have very, uh, management-friendly working rules. And, uh, `course our wages aren't as high as the states that don't have, you know, the right to work law. And, uh, we just have to make sacrifices.

SLAWSKY: The - in other words, you're saying non right to work states -

WEST: - Right -

SLAWSKY: - The wages are higher -

WEST: - Right. Right. Higher, and the working conditions are naturally better. 00:42:00Because they don't have to compete against, uh, the kind of contractors we have to compete against.

SLAWSKY: And the local unions are bigger?

WEST: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SLAWSKY: And the union's market share is bigger?

WEST: Right, sure.

SLAWSKY: Um, so right to work has a pretty profound influence on labor movement.

WEST: Absolutely. Absolutely.

SLAWSKY: Um. What about you, Pam, growing up in a union family in this - in Savannah?

PAM WEST: I guess I never seen that side of it. Always I guess with Edgar and Dad looked pretty easy, like they had the control. So I never saw the - so much of the controversy. I saw a little more after working in the office and the fight he was up against. But before that it just never seemed that hard.

SLAWSKY: Okay. In other words you just - this was the only place you knew.

PAM WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Okay. Um...do you remember any stories that your father might have told you as a, um, anything you remember in particular that was important to him? You 00:43:00know, with the local?

PAM WEST: Always be fair and honest, and be a man of your word. I'll remember those three things, from you know, all my life.

SLAWSKY: Okay. So honesty and bit - and your integrity is very important?

PAM WEST: Very. Very.

SLAWSKY: The, um - was, was David active in the, uh, in Savannah labor politics or, you know, labor movement?

PAM WEST: Yeah, for a lot, late - during younger years and say, till we got older with his health. But yeah, before that yeah, he was very involved, very, very.

SLAWSKY: And Edgar, I know you've been involved. You, you were President of the Savannah Labor Council. Of the - Savannah Building Trades Council.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: One time.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: And were you involved with other building trades unions?

WEST: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was a member of the building trades in Augusta. I sat on 00:44:00the private industry council here. And I was very involved in all aspects of the -

PAM WEST: The AFL-CIO.

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Are you involved also in the state AFL-CIO?

WEST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Now, you received the labor leader of the year award a number of years ago.

WEST: Right. I forget when that was. Ninety? Ninety-nine, I don't know?

PAM WEST: Six, seven years ago.

SLAWSKY: Six, seven years ago. Okay.

WEST: Yeah. Something like that.

SLAWSKY: And, uh -

PAM WEST: And you were a delegate to it every year, to the election of the guy from the AFL-CIO.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Okay. The, um, have you noticed any changes in, uh, the local labor movement - you know, since, since you, you were involved?

WEST: No, um, not really, uh. Since 2000, it's been a big struggle because of they're working out their...you know, like, we had tried in 2000. But the guys are working hard and doing a good job here, the locals are claiming (the ass?). But, um, they not really doing anything any different than what we did in the past.

SLAWSKY: The, uh, I mean, you're talking about the - what about the amount of work that's available?

WEST: Uh, it's a little - it's a little slow compared to the Clinton years. But, uh, you know, we have - pretty much full employment now, so I guess we're blessed.

SLAWSKY: But your - is your, how does your membership compare to the way it was?

WEST: Our membership's down some from then. And, uh -

PAM WEST: A lot of that's due to retirement -

WEST: - Right, yeah -

PAM WEST: - Early retirement.

WEST: A lot of it's due to the early retirement benefits we have.

SLAWSKY: Uh-huh.

WEST: But, uh, as a whole everybody here in Savannah doing fairly well. Excuse me.

[Silence]

Female: ... Two, three. Okay, this one's moving. The needle is moving.

Female 2: Oh, good. Maybe that means something.

Female: Yeah, it could be.

[Silence]

Female: Now is the time. Now is the time. Now is the time. Now is the time. Now 00:48:00is the time. Now is the time.

[Silence]

Female 2: Should be right there. Should be right there.

SLAWSKY: Testing, one two three four, one two three four. One side two. Uh, what I was saying is the, has the labor movement changed, is there the same amount of work that there was. And you were saying that, um, there was some more work during the Clinton years. The number of members in the local has decreased since then because of retirements.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: The other retirements. Is the local trying to bring in some more members?

WEST: Well, you don't bring in any more than you could work. That's the reason – I mean we increasing our membership through our apprentice program. We have I think about thirty-five apprentices in that now. But, uh, uh, the work that we have just don't justify you know, any bigger, any bigger increase in the membership right now.

SLAWSKY: The, um. Have you, are there any things that have happened in - well, let me ask you something that's happened recently. There's been a, sort of a schism or a break in the AFL-CIO.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: What are your feelings about that? I mean, something that's happened recently?

WEST: Well, you probably don't want my feelings on that. (laughing.)

SLAWSKY: Well, this is your chance.

WEST: No, I don't want to, uh, I don't agree with the split. I think it's a, the politics are only going to end up hurting the working people. And I'm thinking that's what it is mostly, just politics. I don't agree with it. But I'd rather 00:50:00not go any deeper in it than that.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

PAM WEST: Strength comes in numbers and you're breaking the numbers.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: The, uh, do you have any thoughts about national politics? Not just union politics, but.

WEST: Oh, absolutely. We got to get some Democrats in there.

SLAWSKY: Why?

WEST: Why? Because hey, the working peoples', really took a beat since 2000. And, um, I mean the, and that's a shame. But, uh, hopefully the people of the country's enjoyed enough of the -

PAM WEST: And they're starting to see the light.

SLAWSKY: Or the darkness.

WEST: Right.

PAM WEST: Or the darkness. Exactly.

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: Especially in New Orleans and Mississippi -

PAM WEST: But you seen a big shift in politics. The Iraq is not so important now as the economy. Where before the economy was not that important...to the American people.

SLAWSKY: You think, uh, what recently happened in New Orleans and Mississippi have an effect on peoples' feelings?

WEST: Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, and the -

PAM WEST: And it should.

WEST: Everybody realizes it too. I've seen the President on television last night accepting responsibility for the way FEMA reacted doing this thing. So that's - he's up there trying to cover his butt now.

SLAWSKY: Did you know that, uh, Bush has put in an exemption to the Davis-Bacon Act? Any of the construction work on the Gulf Coast.

WEST: Ain't that a shame.

SLAWSKY: Third -

WEST: And don't surprise me.

SLAWSKY: Third time in US history that's been requested.

WEST: That don't surprise me. It's a shame. I also know that he's already gave him a, you know, no-bid contract to his good friends in Halliburton.

SLAWSKY: Um. I read in the paper that, uh, Halliburton, KBR, you know, Kellogg Brown & Root, which is owned by Halliburton is getting work. And also Bechtel's getting some work, too.

WEST: Right. And Fluor Daniel.

SLAWSKY: And Fluor Daniel.

WEST: And Shaw.

SLAWSKY: And Shaw, that's very rough.

PAM WEST: (laughing) and nice.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: And, and, hello.

PAM WEST: Yates.

SLAWSKY: Oh, Yates, oh really?

PAM WEST: Oh yeah, I seen that at TV, the construction workers there at the hotels already.

SLAWSKY: No kidding.

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: And, uh -

WEST: No bids.

SLAWSKY: No bids?

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Without, they -

PAM WEST: They didn't have time for any bids. They're still cleaning up and they were out there.

SLAWSKY: What about the Davis-Bacon Act?

WEST: That's it.

SLAWSKY: Um. Um. The -

PAM WEST: It's your big business. It's the working man.

SLAWSKY: Right. I guess the problem is they don't have enough people to work, huh.

WEST: Yeah, right. All they had to do is give the Super Dome.

SLAWSKY: That's it. Um. What would you - what do you think will happen with unions or labor movement in the future? I mean, the future in the long future? Do you think there's a future for unions?

WEST: I do. And I think -

PAM WEST: - Yes -

WEST: - more and more people seeing the need for a union. Those members, there's just so much stuff going on right now. Well, that's a good example you just talked about, waiving the Davis-Bacon down there. And, uh, it's just a 00:53:00shame to me that, uh, the working peoples' taken over the year. And, uh -

PAM WEST: - They're poor states to begin with.

WEST: Right. Now I don't know how much further we're going to go before in my opinion, if changes aren't going to be made, aren't made soon, you'll have a heck of a rebellion in this country. I mean, you work harder and harder and make less and less. And the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And eventually the people's going to get tired of it.

SLAWSKY: Um-hum.

WEST: And I don't -

PAM WEST: - Time has a way of repeating itself.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Yes it does. Um - are there any things that have happened in, with labor unions that you remember that stick out in your mind? Either of you?

PAM WEST: Just stories I can remember, like being, I guess my father, whenever they're or - they started organizing, like in Jacksonville and him taking care of business there and coming home to take a peek at his first-born, and back to Jacksonville to, to do whatever it is they did.

SLAWSKY: Did, oh, did 709 have jurisdiction over Jacksonville at one time?

WEST: No. No.

SLAWSKY: He helped organize that local?

WEST: What you're talking about is when there was a lot of trouble down there.

SLAWSKY: Oh, there was, okay?

WEST: Yeah. And, uh -

SLAWSKY: Before John Beam? Or with John Beam?

WEST: And the international took it over.

SLAWSKY: Okay, right.

WEST: Like he went out and taking it over.

SLAWSKY: Okay.

WEST: Yeah.

PAM WEST: Yeah. The fight that they had to get, to get to where it all began.

SLAWSKY: Yeah. The, uh, do you think it's important for union members, union leaders, and unions to be active in politics and the public arena?

WEST: Absolutely.

PAM WEST: Yes!

WEST: Absolutely. And, I seen it first hand, Pam has, if you're involved then 00:55:00you can pick up a telephone and call your politician.

SLAWSKY: Give me some examples of how that's affected your members -

WEST: Oh, it's affected them in so many cases (over lapping voices)-

PAM WEST: -(inaudible)

WEST: Yeah, but, with the Davis-Bacon issues here in Savannah, where I had the politicians all on my side. You know, we talked early about, uh, uh, the Savannah River Site. And we had some battles over there. But I was, luckily I was at the time, we had a Congresswoman up there that we was very good friends with. And -

SLAWSKY: McKinney? Cynthia McKinney?

WEST: Yeah, and, uh -

PAM WEST: (inaudible)

WEST: She intervened in a big conflict we had with the Department of Energy and we got it resolved overnight. It's just in, uh, being active and, and, your membership being active. And knowing the politicians so that you're able to pick up the telephone when you have a legitimate problem and they've always come, you know, come by.

SLAWSKY: The, um, and you mentioned earlier that you were able to get the Chatham County commission to agree to a, to agree on a valid wage ordinance.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Has that resulted in more jobs for union members?

WEST: Yeah, absolutely. And I have - and it leveled the playing field. It was shortly after that, they had a, let a contract on the marine trade center here in Savannah. And it went out prevailing wages. That allowed our fair contractors to come in and, and, submit successful bids on the erection of that.

SLAWSKY: The, uh. You mentioned that your son Mitch is a union Iron Worker.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Is that important to you that he is a union ironworker and not just an ironworker?

WEST: Absolutely. He would've thought of it, though. He knows - he loves the union like we do, and he knows what a union's for and what is it about, and, uh, he wouldn't work the other way.

SLAWSKY: And he has two beautiful children.

WEST: (laughing)

PAM WEST: Thank you.

WEST: Sure does.

SLAWSKY: And let's see, one in Savannah, and what's - what's the boy's name?

WEST: David.

PAM WEST: David.

SLAWSKY: David. How could I forget?

PAM WEST: After my father.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: David the third.

PAM WEST: Well, no, he's Mitchell David.

SLAWSKY: Oh, he's Mitchell David -

PAM WEST: - Yeah -

SLAWSKY: - They use his middle name, okay.

WEST: Yeah.

SLAWSKY: All right. Do you call him David?

PAM WEST: Um-hum.

SLAWSKY: The, um, you're hoping that he becomes an ironworker?

PAM WEST: Well, we would have preferred Mitch be something where you are giving us the interview, I mean that's competition, but he chose ironwork, so - (laughing)

SLAWSKY: And what about - what about the little boy. What about little David?

PAM WEST: Well, you know, it - you have to let them decide. You can encourage one way what you would like but the bottom line they going to do what they want to do. And you know, and as long as it's good, honest person and... They have our blessings. Do what's right.

SLAWSKY: The, uh -

PAM WEST: We still don't push for the lawyer, but anyhow -

SLAWSKY: - I Understand -

PAM WEST: - We might get the Iron Worker. (laughing)

SLAWSKY: The way that - they still have a job.

PAM WEST: (laughing). And Savannah's going to be President, there's no doubt -

SLAWSKY: - At least -

PAM WEST: - So I mean, we, we, the day she was born, I told the nurses this, this will be President one day.

SLAWSKY: Certainly with her outgoing, with her personality, that's for sure. Um. What else do you think is important? This is, Pam, I described before that this tape will be placed in the Southern Labor Archives at Georgia State University, their Special Collections Department. And, uh, along with other people who've been active in the labor movement, organized labor in the South. Um. Also I'm talking, and we'll let you talk, is there - either of you talk, is there anything else that you think is going to be on there?

PAM WEST: Well, the unions made it comfortable for us to be sitting by our pool 00:59:00every day and riding in our boat and spending time with our grandchildren at young ages, that we have the time and the good health to do this. We have the retirement, the - it's made our life comfortable.

SLAWSKY: It's not too bad for an Iron Worker, in other words.

PAM WEST: No, it's not. No it's not. A lot of hard work, a lot of years, and it's rewarding.

SLAWSKY: In other words, the dignity of that you can work, you know, be a, work in the field -

PAM WEST: - Exactly -

SLAWSKY: - Dignity of working with your hands, having a craft, and still earning a decent living and a pension.

PAM WEST: Exactly.

WEST: Terrific. Terrific. And, and, and -

PAM WEST: - And that's the way it should be.

WEST: And the satisf- you know, the honor, representing the guys over the years, I will never forget.

PAM WEST: And knowing you made a difference -

WEST: - When I walk down on in the fields and all, they're glad to see me. They had a problem, they thank me for whatever I done. And that memories, that'll be with me the next of my life. And I've been - it has been an honor. To serve the guys, and, and -

SLAWSKY: - That's very good -

WEST: - And I really cherish that.

SLAWSKY: Now, that's - I want to put this on tape as well - I've worked with 01:00:00quite a few union business managers. And you're one of the people that I admire the most. I mean, for your integrity -

PAM WEST: That's an honor.

SLAWSKY: - And if you feel that way, that it is an honor. But I also feel that I'm fortunate to do what I do. I do something that I believe in. Not everybody gets to do that. And, uh, with people that think what they're doing is very important -

WEST: - Right -

SLAWSKY: - And has a social importance to the members. To the labor movement. And actually helps people every day.

PAM WEST: Has made a difference.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: Has made a tremendous difference. I mean, without the union we wouldn't have a pension. We wouldn't have the health benefits. Wouldn't have annuity benefits. And as you say, wouldn't be sitting by the side of the pool.

PAM WEST: Exactly. Just relaxing with our grandchildren.

SLAWSKY: Now it's interesting, a lot of union people say well, I like all that but I don't want my kids to the same thing. And you, uh, how do you - that's why I was asking that question.

PAM WEST: We, we would have liked Mitch to have gone to college. We - this was 01:01:00our dreams, but it wasn't his dream. And you know, you have to accept that. And I'm proud of him, I'm proud of what he's doing, I'm proud of my husband, I'm proud of my father. My brothers. They've all made a difference for other people. So it's - it's -

SLAWSKY: So it's not just working for yourself, it's part of the working for everybody else as well.

PAM WEST: That's everybody.

WEST: Right.

PAM WEST: Unity.

SLAWSKY: Yep. The -

PAM WEST: - The brotherhood.

SLAWSKY: And sisterhoods.

PAM WEST: And sisterhood, exactly.

SLAWSKY: The, uh - anything else that you think is important?

WEST: No, that about covers it. Uh, like I said it's been an honor and I've enjoyed it, and if I could go back I wouldn't change a thing.

SLAWSKY: Really?

WEST: I'd come back the same way back I did it the last time. I have really enjoyed my life, and enjoyed the positions I've had, and I'm enjoying it more now than I ever have.

SLAWSKY: Really. And you're fortunate to have a wonderful family. Not everybody has that.

WEST: I'm very lucky.

SLAWSKY: The, uh -

WEST: - That's right -

SLAWSKY: - Have a strong family with, uh, children or grandchildren, and, uh, have something to enjoy.

WEST: Right.

SLAWSKY: That's, uh, very, very important.

PAM WEST: And good friends.

SLAWSKY: Yeah.

WEST: That's right. That's right.

SLAWSKY: And something you believe in and something you look back on and say gosh, "I'm really proud of what I did and..." -

PAM WEST: We've been blessed. We've been very blessed.

WEST: Yeah. Yeah.

SLAWSKY: "...and look at all the people that've been helped by what I did. And what the union has done." And the union will be here long after you quit working here, and -

PAM WEST: Sure.

SLAWSKY: Um. So, um, all right, I'm going to stop the tape.